Transcript of: "Just the Facts: Context, Section, and Outreach" and "Community Viewpoints" (Art, Race, Space Symposium, January 25, 2013)

Panelists: Mindy Taylor Ross; Amos Brown; Modupe Labode

Recording available from: https://purl.dlib.indiana.edu/iudl/media/197x61mr6m

She brought her role. She is the principle of Art Strategies, LLC. Speaking about just the past selection. Everybody. Anyway, and I asked you to do a little bit. They said my name is good detail or I've had the great pleasure over the last few years to be the public art project manager, interior for the Indianapolis cultural trail, a legacy or gene in Maryland. So I'm here today to help bring any conversation of specifically about our project proposal by Fred Wilson for the Indianapolis hopeful trail. I wanted to provide some background about the context of a larger project in which his project was was commissioned. As well as the method used for our selection and community outreach. First, it's important to understand that the underlying, underlying values of the now as a whole project include an emphasis on connectivity, are sustainable design and the role of creative expression in the future of our city. Our team believes that liberals cities provide connectivity and access to arts, nature, and beauty every day for everyone. And so what is the cultural trail? It is a unique eight mile urban biking industrial pathway that connects the city's cultural districts and many urban and historic neighborhoods. In the downtown core. It delivers users to every significant arts, culture, heritage, sports and entertainment menu and down. And it is the downtown hub for the trail system. And so here you see an image of Fountain Square, One of our cultural districts, and its connection to the pleasant time travel to the Sappho down. The cultural trail is also a new prototype for urban transportation corridors because it integrates universal accessibility for all people, green infrastructure, clean transportation, community revitalization, economic development and sustainability into its design is a framework of green infrastructure that creates more connected and sustainable community in which we can work its way or an invalid. So given what I've just said that the trail is I want to highlight themes that were articulated in public art prospectus that went out to all the artists who were invited to think about the cultural trail. Those themes included things like connectivity, which you've heard us say a line that connects all of its forms and meanings. Connectivity, physical connectivity, many different ways of interpreting that theme. The theme of culture and specifically using art and designed to impact public spaces, sustainability and alternative modes of transportation. I think that's important to understand how a project is funded or frequently asked that it is a combination of Federal to you tiger grant monies and $27.5 million in private money. The budget breakdown is also behind me. And so it was my task to manage $2 million in private funding to support the integration of public art into the construction of the trail. Who was involved? This was a partnership between the central Indiana Community Foundation and the City of Indianapolis is Department of Public Works. We had an entirely locally based project management and design team, and we had a very long list. One of the partners. As I said, I've been involved for about seven years that this product has actually been envisioned as being bounced around too many Romans, 13 years. So it's been quite a labor of love for many of us. And I think it's important. It's important to also note that we have received a lot of national and international intention for the project. And so we've been very successful in putting in Annapolis on an app as a city that was first is something a model like the cultural trail does not exist anywhere else in the world. I also wanted to quote public spaces in New York City. Who was quoted as writing, There's nothing like this in the world. This is an astonishing and amazing vision that will transform Indianapolis. Indianapolis is taking on what might be the boldest staggered any American city towards supporting bicyclists and pedestrians. So I also wanted you to understand very quickly reflection of art that was commissioned to be part of the trail. And so this is a map of the 8 mi of the Cultural Trail and the location of various projects along the trail, all of which are accepting one that is still in progress. This is care don't care by indianapolis based artist Jamie policy. This is an interactive artwork. Obviously, it looks like your run-of-the-mill pedestrian signal, which you're invited to interact with it, you'd walk up to it and press the button and you can tell the trail users whether or not you care or don't care if it's 5 s. The next project which is located in an alley behind a Massachusetts Avenue, which is one of our cultural districts. This is chattering passage by Sean dairy and it is a lot. So before Chelsea galleries were doing artwork, that's no, we were doing samples. So when you walk, allie, you might have been used to selling trash and urinating or various things that happen nowadays and urban cores. And instead, you run into this smell of an English garden. John was very interested in all the core vaults that are engineers were cussing ample time to go to trail. This project is called query modules, wanting to buy an artist's collective called N 12 lead artist is also based here in Indianapolis. This product is the first grid tied public art project. You can see the solar panels are a design feature of the project. So as our first energy neutral public art project that returns just as much power to ITIL as we draw. This project was really envision should be this intersection of visual cues to rural Indiana as well as urban DDIs. So our traditional landscape along the trail is gone with prairie grasses. We have these modules that can either are sort of nod to truss bridges on the interstate or not covered bridges in the country. And it's all part of the trail that is very straight and very flat. And so you suddenly have a different kind of experience. And you come upon this. And this is our lovely and dancing originally novae. This is a four-sided animated LED in the Nasdaq cultural district. We have a site at the corner of Indiana Avenue and St. Clair, which is held for artists that we're sending in the Herron School of Art and Design. This is a professional practice opportunities for their artists. So they have to compete against each other for the opportunity to create a public artwork at this intersection. And they must work with various community stakeholders, including but not walker Theatre Center for Urban League ran someplace. Neighborhood numbers of the university is a real opportunity for them to have a life experience in public art. And then this wonderful project and my current analysis, sort of street by a studio. This will be one of our crown jewels when it's complete. The public art program. This is a block and a half, so it's longer than your monument is tall. If you laid the Soldiers and Sailors Monument down, it's an interactive light project inside of her garage. So as you move through this garage space, which is rather dimly lit place where I was not looking forward to riding my bike. You actually start to turn on light LED lights and they agreed on and kind of swarm around you and follow you as you move along the trail in this area. And then lastly, we have moving forward by Donna sink. This is a series of seven eco-friendly bus shelters that we commissioned. A little trail that incorporate poetry by Indian artists. And I'm sorry, I also need to mention the key swap, which is designed by $1 burger and Associates. They were the lead landscape architect on Cultural Trail. These are involved in Vigenere gardens that pay respect to significant people in the United States who made contributions to the world through percents of the piece. As you know, and I'm sure we may talk about Indianapolis is home to the second largest collection of war memorials, only to Washington DC. And the blood family felt strongly that we needed a symbol of similar people who made significant contributions to peace. Instead of the projects we did not build. Is e pluribus unum by Fred Wilson. I first want to make sure everybody knows what the project proposal was, which is a re-creation of the free man that is situated on the Western sculpture, which is called the screw. The Soldiers and Sailors Monument here in downtown Indianapolis. You'll see here. He was proposed to be reproduced in Indiana. Limestone, like the original shackles would be removed. He will not be shown in chains. Instead of change who you are and the African Diaspora. It was proposed that he's currently in a seated position as the lowest figure in this sculptural group, which is very much an art historical trope of civil war era statuary. But instead, he would be raised at at least a 45-degree angle to sort of give him a more upright and the more sort of forward position up on this length. Using the language of monuments and memorials. Principles for art integration. Again, it's just speaks to again, just the facts and what we did in our process to arrive at Fred Wilson and arrive at the proposal for E for this. And then this was the design framework that we worked on on the cultural trail. Everything has to be collaborative amongst our team, the community, quality over quantity. The two billion-dollar budget was used for key place-making opportunities for kind of a bunch of little sculptures throughout the trail. Because we felt like there were already a lot of assets and urban core and meeting people. What visual clutter we didn't want to compete with all the war memorials to architecture, et cetera. Projects were awarded to the most qualified candidates. There were a lot of artists engage, you have Indianapolis ties, but that was not a requirement. And we denote to install all the projects during the construction of the trade-offs are Artist's selection process in October and November of 2006. And open call for qualifications of artists living in the state of Indiana did go out. We of course, we're very interested in to make sure we understood the local talent pool and those who are interested in thinking about the social trail. And then in late 2,006.2007, we also had an invitational or direct curatorial process. This is done with the Arts Council, is public art staff and when the local territorial Advisory Committee. And this is a list of that committee when he started. Because you've got to remind you this time, people have moved, people change jobs. But I thought it was important to show folks too many members when you started and shortlisted artists and started to invite, such as Fred Wilson. And so essentially it was comprised of most of the local curators of contemporary art in the city. Art educators, individual artists, people who had a level of expertise to lend to the conversation. These were the folks whose shortlisted artists who were working on more of a national or international level. I also thought it important is because this was a question that was asked a lot in our conversations. Women, why not? We're artists of color. How did the process run with the other artists who were considered? So while I had this opportunity, I also wanted to share some of the other artists who were invited to consider the Indianapolis bushel try out. Some did submit proposals, some did not. There are various reasons why the names you see above. You don't mind my words lie them on the trail. The contract development process and the product development process. There was a contract for proposal. Once the proposals are reviewed by a committee and by our management team, if they were moved forward, there was a contract for design development. There were benchmarks and then that design development, if we hit those benchmarks and there was a notice to proceed into fabrication, Fred's projects was stopped right before it went into fabrication. And then again, I thought it was important to just understand how outreach happens with the project and a timeline for the project. And these are various images from community meetings that we had. This is a really visual, but I wanted to folks again to understand the kinds of communications that went out to people. There were e-mails, phone calls to leaders throughout the community, lists that were provided to us by the mayor. Peterson was mayor at the time by his office. Civic, religious leaders and community receive communications as well as a copy of the image of friends project. And this was the earliest image that we used when we reach out to people, invited them to meet Fred and to hear about the project. And so there were communications, telephone calls that occurred. And I think again, that's probably most important for people to understand that. In 2007, this is when we engage tread for proposal process occurred. The proposal was received in 2008, 2009, we held our first public meeting. Does happen to them out of office to get your center on February 25th. I will say that that meeting was very lightly attended. Again, there were personal invitations, females, things that were put out to the general public. It also appeared in Indianapolis Star for newspapers three times letting people know that this is a meeting that was free and open. In 2010. We helped to other public meetings. One at this I'd say school, another at the Indianapolis Museum of Art. And articles appeared in Minneapolis reporter for the first time. And then in 2011, be one Choice Award for visual arts. In July, the decision was made to withdraw the fiber from the city county building site. In October, the central Indiana Community Foundation hosted three community discussions. And December the project was canceled. And again, that's a very high-level overview, 15 min. To answer more specific questions. Thank you very much. Next speaker is a ms. Branco. He is a journalist in both broadcast and print media and is deeply engaged with community issues. Is Kahlo's come in the Friday? Well, you just wouldn't be Indianapolis Recorder host afternoons with amaz on am 1310. From one it comes on at 01:00 P.M. and he does not duplicate this is media, the VDS, so you get fresh content and all those outlets. He has so many years he has followed this. The e curve is extremely closely. He's interviewed people including Fred Wilson and Taylor Ross, as well as many toys, Foundation and activate. He will be speaking. I emphasized from his perspectives as a journalist about the various responses of Indianapolis citizens to ether. Thank you. Someone who does not drive on the interstates was in African American communities. Don't hate the player. The game. Throughout all of the controversy over her friends were the overwhelming feeling in my community was he had a right to make the work. We did not want it on public land. Difference to the public and private land. On public land as a depiction of our community. Why do I say sometimes I feel in this 21st century that it Ralph Ellison was living today and wrote his book, Invisible Man. He would be writing them out Indianapolis. In our African American community. Why do I say 40 years ago, the African-American community in Indianapolis was basically 100,000 people on mobility today, and it's nearly 300,000 people out of 1,000,008. That's triple grow. In a community that has only grown 78%. And for decades, yes, that community, it's ingestible. And so all of a sudden when that community does not see positive representations of itself. And then all of a sudden, on public land, some say we're getting ready to see a depiction of our community that may not in the eyes of many positive. And I'll cry. Sometimes you have to watch it because it feels like you're saying not constant. Well, if you look at mainstream media in this time, you see black folks is if they are athletes. If they are wearing orange outfits. As the jail card, or an area involved in some controversy. We'd never see positive images on television. It is rare in the star. It is nonexistent in Indianapolis monthly? Yes. Tell Jeff, I've talked about is almost non-existent in new home. So you wonder why my community against all obsessive, limited on tax payment when you're kinda put a representation of a negative yeses, slavery didn't exist. And then, but that's the only representation we see in public art of a third of the city of 16.17% of the metropolitan area. Now you see kind of how seminar community felt not about the world. Many folks said the word ought to be displayed on private property in the little art garb that they have the art museum and gentlemen dislike, but not on something taxpayers painful. Some other issues. You would think in the second decade of the 21st century. We would have great diversity. Not only in public art, but within the halls of arts institutions in this scene. We don't have that. So there was no one in these arts institutions of color to be able to push back, not so much pushback to say, Is this really a good idea? Is this, is, this is all. When I moved here in 35 years ago, there were virtually no one of color in any management position at any marks institution in this city. Today. I can count them on still one hand with less than five fingers. And we're in the 21st century. Slide just depicted song at a time. After the Indianapolis order article came out in an op-ed by the word Robinson was now a member of the city county council. Votes got ups and we talked about on the radio. I already was not a fan of the cultural trail because nice little thing, but what do we need another couch in our living room? When are based on our rec room and somebody upstairs veterans are falling apart. Don't need to buy another couch for our wonderful living room. Lady, divide a couch or another part of the house is falling apart. And so all of a sudden at the Walker, both supporting folks, angry. So what do they do? They bring an out-of-town facilitator attempt to facilitate an angry crowd that she doesn't know. The leading almost ended up like up here six for all because it was the equivalent of having someone run the Indianapolis Colts office and didn't know how to read or defects. You know what standard you're sitting in the audience of people who go into say Mr. Brown had you pull up their facilitate your ventilator? Sure. And the head doesn't know what the hell she's doing. There were some African-Americans and manage leadership in the arts, they would have been able to save it. You will get ready to have a mess. Don't bring it out of town of mixing by denotes the plaintiffs knows how it relates, knows how to get the job done. They also omitted that we had radio. The day after the big mess of the walker. All of a sudden, people call it up and read, was on the program. Very respectful. The frame. Great job explaining what it was he was trying to do at that center, which should have been that long time ago. Again, thinking because that's the black community and they really don't understand and we really aren't dominance. The 11th largest city in the country, the 13th largest black community of any city in the country. And we don't talk to each other. We don't communicate. We don't understand each other's needs. And then we come up with these little Christ. I did, I knew on the, this is a site that is part of the League of Peace thing. There was to be a thing with Dr. King. I didn't even know it was up and finish. Two or three days ago downtown. And I said, Oh, I'll ask this on here. I said that Did they ever finished it? The list of columns that I think it's fine that Brazilian restaurant downtown drove by that little Brazilian know what's in Google to do lizard or whatever you call them. And I saw it. It looks like nobody told my community that was seen. How much $50 billion of my tax dollars spent. I have a positive representation of one of the great human beings of this age. And you couldn't tell us that it was gone. That baby on April 4th know and-a-half, somebody invented to overblown or whatever the restaurant is in front of that statue or do something on Dr. King's birthday or last Monday. This textbook, lack of understanding that aren't visible. Girlfriend of a Notre Dame layer. We're real people. But January not treated that way if we're not engaged in the conversation and I've used solute, the efforts of the Arts Council and the posted come together to find a way in a reason competition in an inclusive event, there's information in your handout to put some public on. It's difficult for any minority community to get behind public art are the only public art they see in their neighborhoods. Guess, homegrown graffiti, or maybe a mirror on the side of a business as well. Or there's no outlets for our yarns, are older artists or artists have been knocking around for years to see their work displayed. Only client persons of color in this town get their work display is in February during the library. Does it meet the artists? And that's another thing that the arts community must learn. You want to engage my community? Don't just do it on January 15th or in the month of February. Because at that point, we'll just say, Oh, it's February as lifetime and cultural stuff where my stopped to King's birthday fried egg, and have fun. The rest of the time. There's nothing to engages or you don't engage us to let us understand why that might be something worth looking at. Sometimes we get hung up with your black folks. You need to go see Fred Wilson's exhibit where you need to go see somebody else's exhibits, late assignments, thesis important. Explain to us why for castle looks weird, why it's important or the old masters. Because maybe you explain to us why symphony is critical. Because maybe then you engage our community because arts will die. If you don't engage growing minority communities, the arts community. Recall the party of white males with my arts institutions. The party of white males and some females with money. And if you don't agree, Jack, to get increasingly multicultural community, what will happen? You will winter and then this whole controversy. If I leave you with these voids, while did not take the player. Hey, I would love to have seen it displayed. But not on people's. Like I could get feedback from folks who said, Wait a minute, the statue is active courthouse. Think about that. At the courthouse where folks are lead on television in chain right down the street from that jail. Is that the proper place to put that? Somebody didn't have the right to do the work. Exactly like it was a slave statue that some German side deal with black, black person looked like. And you're reconfiguring it as radical. Malcolm would have approved bobby Seale by the public. Not on land and we're paying for with our tax dollars. That was my communities. But in the midst of all the yelling and screaming and the costume and asks them to whatever. I think we've got a processed that will encourage and hopefully send a positive signal to artists around the country. Compete. That will send a signal to our local artist. You got game. Show us. Hopefully the process will include SEL, thing. My community has to understand public art isn't a statue. Because a lot of people think public art has a statue of a general or a statue of a famous figure because that's the only public art. Do you ever see? My community as to understand public art could be whimsical, little trendy thing. Maybe, maybe it can be culture much impressive in Iraq comes out for you. Video thing that Fred show rules of people talking out a section that's that's very Disney best properly. Do you consume on Disney Company rate those kind of experimental things, daddy, get into spokes. And the other final thing is, what are we doing as an artist to get them? To make sure that our kids, whether they're black kids, read kids, brown kids, yellow kids, are exposed to art in their schools. Because I would like to think after I'm in Social Security, '90s, some young Indianapolis nurtured, afraid. Afraid. We, Rico Wilson comes along with something provocative and that can be displayed in his or her home city. That's my community perception. I think that's the perception of many in my community. Don't treat us as an invisible. We need inclusion in the upper reaches of our arts institutions. We need to make sure that we make things pretty and it's hard for somebody that's living in a neighborhood where no. To get excited about a cultural trait that they will never use and they will never see. Suddenly you say, We know, maybe spend a half $1 million and put a cultural trail in the park where you play. What we're going to put some public art or getting power or some muralists jump right in your neighborhood. Or maybe what? A street mural in the middle of the street, which is what I thought the bike lanes were, but obviously, that's what that's what it's all. Thank you. Thank you very much. Mr. Brown and I would like to invite the artists. Invite Fred Wilson, you tailor Ross. And it was written out here. See, it's a little bit interesting place here, slip. I think I'm going to do over here and invite people to come up here. And here's my little improv and you don't mind sitting down here and okay. And we'd bad 15 min to how some question and answer. And I'll try to call on people and go back and forth one side or the other. So I'm pushing the lengths of each of you are alive too, if you would like to use those. What would the speakers? Yes, sir. And you might want to stand up, I need to project. This is also being filmed for a very important for any given all of the hello back occurred. Probably. I would like to know exactly what was the racial composition. In other words, how many black Americans constituted the Indianapolis trio commissioning? Secondly, what was the racial composition of the artists who submitted proposals as well as the racial composition of the shortlist. Show. Finally, and this is perhaps not exactly where the other proposals were rejected by the fire for sure. Thank you very much. I'll try to be sustained and answering those. In terms of the curatorial Advisory Committee, which is shortlisted artists. Nine members were African-American, want assumes Latin American? In terms of the cultural trail team, I think you asked, that is a difficult question to answer simply because there are a lot of people involved. But for design and management team, I believe there are three bit on the acronyms, different proceedings data. Anyway, there were three or your mind morning owned companies that were part of the Shrew series firm as part of this gene leads firms part of his game. I know Gail pain is a woman owned enterprise. Our program manager or as an agent of unknown garden or the Armstrong miser leads the team for the city. She is now the director of the Department of Public Works. In terms of the people who were shortlisted, the list that I showed was of artists working on a national or international stage on list, there were three African American artists or artists, I think good, identify themselves as such. Fred Wilson, pardon per year and wireless market for years of education. He is interested in doing public art, right? Yeah. You can do while he was invited, Kennedy did submit you didn't submit a formal proposal. We didn't come for a visit. Frankly, he was not engaged to do a formal project proposal because we thought that his proposal will it be more controversial? He proposed, if you're not familiar with, depending why does he recreated very baroque paintings? And so you think of the bullying on this course and very Baroque painting. He takes the Boolean off a horse. And who he was on the horse is generally young African. Mary in jewelry. Young urban male stereotype. Correctly, he wanted to use the cultural trail is an opportunity to do this first sculpture, to do something like a memorial, like in clustering and statue if you will, but to flooding and young black men on the horse. And again, given the dearth of images of African-Americans in the public sphere, we did not think that that would be inappropriate for those things that I answered most of your questions. You have alternative was that it was two regressors. I want to remind people that there is a microphone up here. I just think one other thing, if I may, I just want to point out that's fine. Line. I didn't go through it extensively because we were trying to keep things brief and we're already late. But it didn't wanna point out that prior to the Madam Walker and meaning that Mr. Brown mentioned, there were three other public meetings. And there are invitations need not only to African-Americans, specific media such as Mr. Brown, northward or two years before. So I wanna make it clear that, well, obviously we can be courteous and we can eat was not effective. That have been done better, that have been done differently. We're all human, we're all here to learn. We're not at all trying to say that we had a perfect process so that we can learn from the process that we did. But I want to make it clear that there was an attempt on threads to have to engage the community. There was a charge that Fred name as the project manager to engage the African-American community here in Indianapolis. Republican meetings that happened prior to the event and the reporter reporter and Mr. Brown and other outlets for information about Fred's project two years before the controversy happens. So just to be really clear about that, they don't think that that's been stated very often. The controversy with your thoughts about the diagnosis, opportunity for broad-based community and resulted from the rejection. Wilson's peace. I asked the question because This is the first time. It's been probably a community-wide into the, into the objective selection of a ought to be displayed. So I'm interested, particularly in Industrial, your thoughts about the diagnosis for that, It's an ongoing activity. And Ms. Wilson has because one of the challenges came up was the public process occurred after the odd, we'll select designs. And so now we're being quite differently. Interested in your thoughts about Robin's community input in the semester. So I guess there's two questions. Whenever I work at a lecture at university, I say Gage Studies Department. I have to say that. So normal process or hardware on Pinterest for revenue? Or is that a group of people that swamp, people that decide what shows, call that makeup. Various, didn't have anything to do with that. However, in this situation, she said, I just said joseph was having clubbing to a larger population about here. That's the process I lost track specific questions. I think that's, you know, that's perfectly valid. But that tends to be not that often. These publications are not specific to this. Hapless at all. It's just my brother. Okay. But part and parcel of that speaks to what we're saying is that the it has to be done in a broader situation. Understanding arts department name so that the two wet and wet because I also see people get invited to the table who don't speak the language. You know, various science conference. I was wearing science conferences. Typically for mathematics, especially Totally, Yeah. So it's one thing to have a dialogue and to be included, but they're all ships have been graded so that the conversation is one. Let's start with the classic but really engaged around knowledge base article. So I believe there needs to be especially the city at a great scale, especially. It turns out that there are perfect score or whatever you already involved. There should be regular conversation about that at the forefront. But then it has a larger process of engagements. Where to really, to the artwork that he had to be a valuable contribution. That that's less than five question, I promise you, you will be on the selection. Robin selection. I'm probably not going to ask what will be the string? I think it needs to do whether you're going to put the public artist Robert, where they don't stop 11 road, whether you're in downtown, I think it needs to be this thing, be the demonstration. How you knew process shaped differently. It's not just a merely selection. It's also send the signal to local artists that we want you to participate to see you, you have gained one of the criticisms of public art. Broad sense of the city is it has not given local artists and hunger generally, if you talk to local artist, forget their ethnicity. They all pitch falling, complain legitimately that they're shown no love in their own town. This process could, because you got to pick the best one. The best one may be national or international. The best one maybe here. The best idea could be that maybe a professional would have to translate them into something that works with the best idea. Maybe a kid, you don't know. What do you need to open it up, make the process fairs, which sends a signal, a local artists, your game. If you've got the gain to be the best, we got a process that will treat you with great consideration. And I think that, that works here. If all we're all aware across the board for public art. Public art is specifically, there are not even different from this notion of Cardinal public places. They're making words that are durable. Well, if you go out in the public for a period of time, public art is something that is sure but, but but it does mean that it's going to be in the public realm for a long time. But actually, I'm sorry, I'll just say early in here just because I think we're running very short on time. I think there is uncertain. It's been wanting to get up here. And then there's a woman in the back with the gray. But I just also want to say is the Indianapolis is even further complicated because we do not have publicly funded public municipal level. Yeah, I'm in short, it is recurrently your question. There isn't a municipal public art program and the cities that or any one sanction related to the city. So plain I, after this role, if you all want to see a particular kind of public art processing happens in the city. We should advocate that you're being public art program in the city areas at one. We're all making it up as we go along in the best that we can based on national models. At the other thing I want to point out is connected to a local call for artists. In three-quarters of the artists featured on the cultural trail are coming. But I mean, that is this is where it's at. Indianapolis is actually very unusual in having a public funded public statements. The topic is space for the symposium. Where does things that they help enable rules? Say that because there was taken down with the airport, there was orange here. I think it was two beers and situations level if you lose. This one here. The invisible this. Why is there so much attention given to evolve? So deep and so repetitive in overlook give the gears. But when it comes to the other argument is that as the American people can see, it's very old phone call to make and take it back before African-Americans. Extra illustration. Because the dental voyage, he said is going to be sure if people know to deer in the missionary position African School of Art and Design. Very loud. It was an example of art and public space. It was in a curated an exhibition and outdoor spaces around the high school was meant to be temporary. This one right here. She's going to be the last question. We're still going to have that you want to stand up if you wanted to. But we are going to have other problems with these four questions and then they can appreciate this presentation from everyone. And it's going to seem pretty again. I got introduced to you as longer annual worth. I wanted to clear up just a couple of minutes because it's been stated that the African-American community doesn't appreciate are. And that's totally untrue, but many of us are lovers as well as patrons wherever we can afford it. So that's totally untrue. So the protests and I think I can speak for that because I was one of the main persons in that was not against the artist. The artist specifically, it was against the process. And also the history of African-American people in this city. Personally, my family has been in the cities since the mid 1800s. I take ownership even number five years old. It was places I could not go on to treatment in how Bill I was told me I was wrong, the brand through all of that. But I still saying and I continue to stay, you have to understand the history. We have equal. You can go to the circle because the young man was killed on the circle unnecessarily. I mean, error friends of mine who refuse to go downtown. So all of this came into play when this came out. So I just need you to understand that it wasn't just a lagging known understand our later protests. There was really some significant history connected today. So my question is when they've been married infuse since it all started, was this public to pollinate the whole tail trails of Indiana Avenue? Still questions or there isn't anything that goes to you. And the process is going on now where that piece is supposed to be and those that permanent Indiana Avenue. And, uh, so I think all of this history needs to be taken into consideration and we then go back and make sure those conditions are any committees have diversity that is needed. And not just the inverse of that. You have to have people who understand Indianapolis. Most people do not know. The client. You know, addicts was built because segregation and the client, that's homeschool board. So history is important, so we need to know where does this line, how it's connected to our community so we can get connected to me. Sorry, I'm just wondering. Mr. Shrewsbury, could you raise your hand? Yeah. Minister, is Mr. Lawrence there to Shannon leaker. Florida decided for the Arts Council here, as well as representatives of their greater in countless progress maybe Bill, she's very standing in the dock. She had to leave her. Lindsey, Lord of the Arts Council, did you not? I'm in the middle of the room and say that they are the partners who are managing the projects with the monies that the ICF has promised for a new project. So they're managing that process. I'm not involved in that process. I think there's a meeting like very much land. They are indeed, when you look at the handout on they have a list of Monday the meetings. The next one is Monday at the inter chips into the luxury to raise some excellent questions when they came on the radio. Part of this process is not only what should it be in the broad sense, where on the train should it go? A whole kettle of fish right there. But it is a much more open process, even read, Richard Jones is involved in that process as well too. I have a better feeling about where this process will go. You've asked me this job two years ago. So I would definitely encourage you to talk real Shrewsbury talk too much. Either day. Lawrence at DRS counselor talk to brother Reggie, stuck in the back, took really kind of, you know, deal with that process. May I encourage everyone to come out in public forums? As you said, the leaflet is in your packet. We really want to hear from all of the investments. I'm certainly the uninsured and interrupting you, but if you were to just finish that, I think you asked for this project and this project is proposed to be located at the corner of Washington and Delaware Street. One of the bookends of the city county building in our process was very open in terms of site selection, where we allow the artists to completely drive the process of what area on the trail seems appropriate for them in your artistic practice. So we did not we, especially for people who are not from Indianapolis, we didn't suggest certain locations that we thought needed some place-making or some aesthetic intervention. But we didn't e.g. say to private and Fred came to town, you would like you to do the project and project on Indian avenue? We did not prescribe that. I feel it would just stopped right in the middle of a sentence. But as the pleasures that broader issues of history in space, which is what the next session will be. We are going to be an extremely short break. I think people are done from the back here row. And I welcome you again. Thank you very much to our speakers for the stock.