As we get started, we like to share some introductory information. And as you may know, our center was founded by Professor Emeritus Sandra Petronio. And when she came to campus with Chancellor Emeritus Banz in the 2000, she recognized that IEPI was a hotbed of translational research or folks working on generating and using generated knowledge to solve complex problems in our community. And her goal was to share that and to help let people know that we were a place. IEPY is a place where people can come together from the community, we can involve students, staff, and faculty, and we can solve complex problems by using information in an interdisciplinary and practical way. And currently, our director of the center is a professor, Emeritus Chancellor, Charles R Avance. And his vision of IUPUI was to be a community engaged research campus. And so I think we all know, based on that history that we have quite a bit to offer in our connections with the campus and the community. And so we're delighted that he is leading the charge and helping make this possible. So as we come together today, we have a couple of reminders, Zoom etiquette reminders. So we're all familiar with Zoom, but we do ask that you keep your microphones on mute right now, but later we'll invite you to get your cameras on and unclick that microphone so that you are live, and we'll be able to have conversation with doctor Shaker about the information that she shares. So we will have opportunities to get your input afterwards. You'll receive a post evaluation event, e mail. And that'll have some other information on the so, but please take the time to let us know what you thought about the presentation and ideas that you have for the future. So a couple of updates for us. Reminder that if you're interested in continuing education that you should sign up for that. You can get continuing education credits for attending these monthly seminars. And if you want to know more about what's coming up, follow us on social media. We have quite a presence. You can follow us on Instagram or Twitter and find out what's happening. We like to share information about the amazing work that our scholars are doing. We keep recordings of these and other events on our YouTube channel. And of course, we have a Facebook following, and you can always get information about what's happening. A new feature that we have is on our website page, if you go to featured Scholars, you'll be able to find out more about some of our folks. In particular, you could take a look at Genevieve Shakers, and you'll be able to see if you click on her list that she has an introduction about who she is, a little video, and it's followed by some of her work that's available freely to you in Scholar work. So if you're interested in looking at any of the publications that she has, you can click right there from our website and access those without having to go through a journal or through some other place. It's all in one place. So please take advantage of that opportunity. Upcoming events. Next month, our July scholar of the month conversation. Series will feature Professor Amaru Awash. And that's on Friday, July 22. And at noon is when we do these things. And the title of his discussion will be integrating sustainability into your life. Now, today, we want to get to the topic at hand, and we're delighted to have Associate Professor of Philanthropic studies from the IU Lily Family School of Philanthropy, Professor Geneve Shaker. Hello, everyone. Friends, colleagues, former students, family that are all joining us from near and far, including a colleague from France and my dad in Canada. So it's a very international gathering. And I'm just so grateful to see also Professor Charles Banz, our former chancellor, is with us. And and doctor Petronio, who, I have to say, Steve mentioned my long history with Liberal Arts. I was privileged to work with them on their philanthropy in my life in liberal arts. And so so happy to be now and benefiting from your work through the center today and be able to talk about the continuation. Oh, I see Sandra to. So happy to see both of you. And thank you so much for the work in creating the center and continuing I UPI's legacy of translating research to practice. I appreciate that so much. And, as you'll hear, that's really the foundation of my academic career. And so I put together a little slide with some pictures that help I illustrate how I see myself as a community member. There I am giving blood. I'm the new board chair for the Red Cross this year, so I had to give a blood donation picture for you. And then also some of my work with practitioners teaching through the fund raising school, teaching in my academic classroom. Also with another donor from the School of Liberal Arts, who was important to me in my career in life, and then also presenting at some conferences about fundraising, and in one case, about fundraising for deans and academic leaders. So trying to help those of us here in the academy improve our fund raising prowess as part of what I feel like is my calling as I try to help individuals and organizations reach their philanthropic potential. So, I couldn't do those things without this place, IUPUI that I've called my home since 1997, now. And so many, many years and many, many forms of support from where I am now in the school of Philanthropy, from the School of Liberal Arts, from the schools I graduated from this campus, IU, I U Foundation. And so, really, everything I've been able to do is because of this place and the people who make up this place. So thank you. All of you, many of you on this call. Thank you so much. Okay, so here's what I promised I would talk about. I don't know if any of you are holding that description open and double checking me for accuracy, but I promised I would talk about how I and others in the school philanthropy are building the knowledge base around understanding why and how people give. Now, we're doing that for lots of reasons, but one reason I do that in particular is to enhance fund raising, right? O ethical fund raising that we do. And then secondly, the work that I'm part of to contribute to the professionalization of fund raising, right? And mission based fund raising, which is at the core. That's why we do this work to serve the cause and to serve communities, beneficiaries, non profits, and donors. So really, to bring everyone together in the best possible way to improve the world, as we say in the school philanthropy, improving philanthropy, to improve the world. And so that's my task, and you'll tell me at the end if I achieve it or not. All right, so we're going to do a poll question. And Nori' is going to put up a poll for you. And the question is, how did you make your last philanthropic gift? Whatever comes to mind for you? How did you make that last gift? Okay. So I responded to an e mail or letter 60% by far, the majority there. Some of you were asked in person or by the phone. And feel free in the chat, if you want to add any further details or was I missing any options, right? Were you like, That wasn't there? And I gave a different way. Some of you, just a couple, gave through social media, that kind of venue. Oh, nobody gave through an advertisement or a news story. Although today is actually a big day for that, we may be seeing some giving today, and this week, right, around some of the social events that have happened where people give they hear a new story and they give. So we may be seeing that happening. I just saw articles about that just now before I signed on. Okay, and a couple of people gave with no prompting. So about 20% gave with no prompting. Alright. And so we see that 70, 80% gave with some kind of prompting and 20% gave just because they had the urge to give thank you to you the 20%, specially. So Why did I ask you that question? Here's why I asked you that question. We estimate that 80 to 90% of gifts are given after a request of some kind. So, guess what? That's just what happened in our pool. This is in the red bubble at the top. 80% of you were prompted to give in some way. And so being prompted to give is important, right? We may not always enjoy being prompted to give. It's okay. You know, we don't always love the letters that we get in the mail or the calls that come during dinner. But, you know what, if we weren't getting those, then we probably would be giving a lot less than $485,000,000,000, right? So $485 billion. That's the newest figure came out this week from the school philanthropy that writes and researches giving USA for the Giving USA foundation. So that number came out, like two days ago. And that's the number from last year, $485 billion given mostly by individuals, by far, mostly by individuals. And so 70.8 billion, I thought you all would be interested in this given to education. That includes higher education, K 12, and libraries. So we're not talking about a A small amount of money, right? We're talking about a lot of money here in the US that goes through philanthropy to charitable causes from which we all benefit in one way or another, right? We all benefit from philanthropy in one way or another. And somebody asked for it in 80, 90% of those cases. Alright, so L et's get into me doing what I told you I would do, talking about the fund raising research, how we're translating it to practice, and guess what? I'm going to do that in the reverse in the reverse. So first, I'm going to talk about a really special translational product that I'm so proud to be part of, go to talk about that. And then I'm going to do the funnel down. Then I'm going to talk about the research that went into it, right? So we're going to talk about the product, then the research that is part of it. So Poor cat, I feel bad for him right now. I probably shouldn't on the screen. But anyway, Okay, so here's the product, right? And so this is a book called Achieving Excellence in fundraising. And this book, the one I'm going to be talking about, in particular, is the fifth edition. So the first edition of this book came out in 1991, put together by Hank Rosso, and he and his wife founded the fund raising school, which is a part, which is really the beginning of the Lily Family School Philanthropy and now a part of the Lily Family School Philanthropy. So he put together this first edition bringing together lots of fund raising experts from across the country to create this book. One of them was Gene Temple, and our former dean and former president of the I U Foundation, Gene Temple, took over this project from Hank Rosso and got those next three editions out the door through lots of labor. And one of the things he did was really amp up the research in the book, and also bring more and more people from the Lily Family School of Philanthropy into this project. And so I'm so proud to have been able to be the lead editor on the fifth edition, which just came out along with my colleagues, some are here on the call. Jan Temple is here on the call. Colleague Sarah Nathan is here on the call. O editorial, amazing assistant, Pat Jan and a doctoral student in our school is here on the call and from France. And so Bill Stan, who is not here on the call, but we worked on this project for two years. During COVID, it was a COVID project, and we're so happy we launched it just about three months ago. And so a little bit more about the book published recently 39 chapters, 54 authors, all of them affiliated with the school of philanthropy in one way or another. We've sold 1,100 copies. I just checked. We're number 23 in the Amazon's nonprofit books and charities and non profit books. So we're number 23 on that list. The fourth edition was adopted by 470 colleges and universities around the country for their classes on fund raising. So 470 institutions were hoping for that or better on this edition. But as you can see, this book has a big reach, right? A big reach. Thousands and thousands of students are learning how to fundraise from this book and not just students in school, but also practitioners in the field, nonprofit professionals. And so there is a big reach that we can think of with this translational product. And so more than ever in this latest edition, we continue to work to bring more and more research into this book. Now, there's more fund raising research than ever, but It's not endless, right? So we have lots more work to do in expanding the research that's out there. We bring as much as we can into this book. And then this book also helps us to know, where do we need to do more work? Where do we need to do more work? So here's some of the research that's featured in this book. All of this comes from the Lily Family School Philanthropy. So all of this is done by colleagues, faculty staff, grad students, all of this comes out of our school. And you can see there's some academic articles in there. Those are the ones that don't look fancy on the font, right? The academic articles. And then there's many beautiful reports that come out on all kinds of topics around philanthropy from the school. And so all of these are featured in this book in one way or another. And so here we are working all together. To build this knowledge base, and then to compile it, consolidate it into one place for people in the field. Okay, so I'm going to ask you another question. Okay. All right. I knew when I asked this question, I might be sad when I saw the results of it, but I had to do it. I had to do it. And so, yes, you can see It's a mixed bag. I'm happy to see with some regard was the most popular answer. That's heartening. And to others, I think, on this call would feel the same way. And then, but it is. So we had about 50%, high regard or some regard, 20% neutral, and then 35% with disregard or high levels of disregard or as pests. Okay. So thank you very much for doing that for us, Noy. So you can see that fund raising can be an uphill battle at times, right? We all probably already knew that. We know this is not easy work to ask people to give, although it's a privilege, right? It's a privilege to be able to do that and to support the causes. But it's not easy. But it's made even harder in a public space where people see it with suspicion, right? Or stereotypes that are not the best. And so part of our work, and here I walk in those footsteps I was telling you about of Gene Temple, Dwight Burlingame, Tim Syler, Patrick Rooney, many others in the school philanthropy who have been building the knowledge base about fundraising and about fundraisers. So I walk in those footsteps because just helping people to know the reality of what fundraising is aids in our work, right? Helping people understand fundraisers, aids in our work. And so you might have wondered, why did I put Pesky and Pest on that slide? It was kind of to make you smile, but it was more than that. It's because of this quote. So I was reading an interview I did with the donor and a donor who's given tens of millions of dollars. And here's something he just happened to say in the middle of the interview. He said, I've come to think that fund raising is a very good profession. I didn't used to because they're pests. But if I were advising my grandkids not that they've asked me for advice, I would say that it's a good profession to go into. And so there he is a person who's given tens of millions of dollars, also talking about how he used to think of fund raisers as pets. So you can laugh in the chat if you like. But that's the reality that you also proved in your comments. All right, so let's talk about the research now. Let's talk about the example. Remember, we're funneling down to the research. So we're going to talk about research on building the fund raising profession in specific. And remember, this all falls out of the book, achieving Excellence in fundraising. And this research I'm going to talk about relates to these two chapters that I did, along with my colleague, Sara Nathan, for the book, one about the fundraising profession. The other about how do we make those in person asks for support? How do we make the invitation to give for those large gifts? And so these two chapters informed by these research projects that I'm going to talk about in a minute. But facts about fundraisers. There's a lot of us, right? There's a lot of us in the country. We are mostly women these days and mostly white. So there's some definitely work to do in diversifying our field. It's a good field. People can make a good living. You can rise and have a wonderful career doing meaningful work. And good news, the field is growing faster than other fields, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. So fast opportunities, fast growth opportunities for careers for our students and others who care about philanthropy and causes. Alright, so here's four research projects, and I'm going to talk about them very quickly and you can ask me questions later, right? So I won't be talking too much longer, but you will have plenty of time to ask questions. These four projects, the ones that I did with colleagues here in the school philanthropy and elsewhere. Three of them, three of them are products of a survey, a survey that was conducted back in 2015, funded by the Lily endowment, led by Gene Temple and Sarah Nathan. I joined them in this work soon afterward to collect information about the fund raising profession. So that's the first three. The fourth one is another project I did interview based study of fundraisers and major donors. Okay, so the first study, here's one highlight from the study, taking that big sample of US fundraisers from that larger survey, only looking at people from higher education. And this is how they answered this question. What are the top three personal characteristics, professional knowledge sets, and learned skills of the most successful fundraiser, you know. And so here we are trying to get at what makes a fundraiser good at their job? Like, what makes a fundraiser good at their job? And we're not the first ones to ask this question. And in fact, I'm asking it again right now of donors and what they think makes a fundraiser good at their job. But here's what fundraisers thought. And so they think top thing for personal characteristics is emotional intelligence, emotional intelligence. And then achievement oriented, so driven. Right, goal oriented, and then ethically grounded, ethically grounded. And then pros professional knowledge, which we also think it's important to explore. There, they thought managing the process was important and understanding these strategies we use in fund raising. And then guess what? Skills. Skills, I put that down at the bottom under number three. I didn't even make a graph because it is, like, so much about interpersonal communication. Right? Written oral interpersonal communication. And so everything else people said under skills that's not that's why it doesn't add up to 100% was actually a learned knowledge or personal characteristic. So this is important because we have used this. So how do we use this? It's in our chapter, but also we use it in fund raising education, right? We use it in helping fundraisers think about, how am I doing? How do I steck up? What can I do better with? And so this is used in many ways, and I'm so glad to be in a place where we have venues to do that, right? Venues to do that. Here's another study. The big question in this study was, do fundraisers give and volunteer themselves? Like, that's behind this complicated title for that, you know, happened for the journal article. But you see, I wrote a piece on this for the Lily School blog. And there the title simply is O fund raisers givers. Right? So this is an example of taking this project with its complicated title, turning it into something palatable to put out and a blog for anybody to read. So our fundraisers givers. And remember, all those stereotypes and negative feelings people might have about fund raising and fundraisers. To us, it was important to ask this question, right? And to see, do fund raisers do what they're asking others to do? And thank goodness, thank goodness, we were relieved that the answer was yes. This is one of those situations where you were kind of, like, cheering for one particular outcome. So, thank goodness, the answer was yes. They do give. They almost all of them give. Many of them volunteer more than the general public, more than the general public. So that was good news and something we now can talk about with some authority, right? We have data now to back up making statements like that. All right, here's another study. Well, this isn't my study for yet. We'll show you here in a second. So one of the big things we hear about fundraisers is there's a swinging door. They come and they go, right? They don't stay long. They move to the next job. And well, as you can hear from my background, I stayed in liberal arts for 18 years. So I know myself. I knew my own self. That's not always true. We don't always come and go. We sometimes stay for a very long time. And others on the call who are fundraisers, I'm talking to you, too. So But but people think people leave quickly, and that's not good for any of us, right? That's not good for welcoming people to the field. And that's not good for how people view the field. And so we wanted to see if we did the same kind of study and asked these same kind of questions, would we get the same results, right? So would we find that 57% of people at small organizations are going to leave after one year, or that the average tenure for fund raising is 18 to 24 months? And so we were inspired by what was happening in the field to ask these questions. And so here's some results from that. Study. So we did not find 18 to 24 months was the average ten year. We found 3.6 years. So how many months is that that's more like 42 months, right? So we found something longer. And we did find a median that was not as long. So that tells me there are a lot of people who are new in these roles who haven't been there that long, about half. But then the other half, some have been very long. And in fact, we found that the longer people had been in their careers, the older they were, the longer they stayed. The longer they stayed. So we also found people didn't intend to leave. The prior studies, we're talking about two years, so that's the difference. We were talking about one year, but only 20% intended to leave the organization, and then 7% intended to leave fundraising. And so we found something different and that we think it's important to add to the dialogue. And we found some other nuances, right? We wanted to get into some more nuances around gender, management, salary. And so the study revealed more nuanced information than you also get from that sort of top level stereotype that we had been hearing. All right, Last study. This study was an interview based study that I did with a Doc student and from the University of Plymouth and the UK. So International, again, friends. And so this study, I wanted to know what happens between fundraisers and those major donors. Like, what do those relationships look like? And so we interviewed fundraiser and a donor that they nominated. Separately, and they told us, like, this is how we work together. This is how the gift happened. This is what happened after the gift. This is the information that we shared with each other in this process. And so through that, we developed a model, a picture, an illustration that shows what these relationships look like. And so you can see it here on the screen, and you can see how it moves from this kind of basic introductory relationship toward something more personalized, toward something confident, right? When the fundraiser felt they understood the donor and how to have a successful interaction toward a kind of partnership where the donor and the fundraisers work together on projects in the institution. And then finally in a few cases toward this consequential bond, right, where the fundraiser and the donor felt they had impacted each other's lives. Now, this doesn't mean all relationships followed this trajectory, Some were in Tier three, somewhere in tier two, somewhere in Tier four. They don't all have to move through all of this. And in fact, they shouldn't by some measures. And so we don't advocate that they do because gifts happened all the way along. But what this project did was allowed us to have a picture of how many of these relationships may go. And that in turn can help us think about analyzing the relationships we have using this model. Think about how do we manage portfolios of donors among fundraisers. And so this creates some different avenues, both for our own individual professional development in the field and for kind of management and leadership in the field. And so on this slide, you can just see also a couple of ways that we've used this research. The first is through some work I've done with advancement teams at different institutions. The second is as a part of the art of fundraising class offered here by the Fundraising School. In fact, I'm teaching that class next week on Monday and Tuesday, and so this work constitutes a module in that class. And so you can see here things are in those book chapters, but that's not the only place that they are. Okay, so some quick lessons. I guess I have a lot of lessons because I kept adding more to this slide. And so, you know, the more you can think of these projects, the scholarly project, the article, and and the translational projects together, the better. More you can conceive that at the beginning of a project, the better. It's great to do the time sensitive projects first. I'll tell you a secret with our tenure study. Really our turnover intent and fundraiser tenure. We really should have done that first. Not third in order of those projects because that was the most time sensitive, but we didn't. We did that third. And so if I were to do it again, do that one first, do that one first. Some of the other ones, I guess one I wanted to draw out, especially was that you don't always have to collect your own data. We're not planning another big survey of fundraisers, but we're going to use the data from the Association of fundraising professionals. So they've given us their study data over 20 plus years. So instead of collecting our own data, we're going to use that, build on what they put out from that and do some other things ourselves. The last one, I was just really thinking about this one, and I added this one this morning is maximize the power of your own collective. So you saw so much that what I was talking about was the work of the Lily School together, right? The book is a product of 54 of us together. And so by putting all of our expertise together in one place, we maximize our ability to inform practice and to get the word out and to bring multiple points of view. And so that, I think is something really powerful I've learned through these projects. Okay. And I won't belabor this. Is my dreams of the future research, but there's a lot left to do. And I mean, I'm thinking a lot about how homogeneous fund raising the profession is in terms of race and ethnicity. And so I think a lot about how can I help with that in the future? And so that's just one of these many projects that are taking my mind space in thinking about what do the next five years, ten years look like for my work. Okay, so here we are. This is what I said I would do. If you feel like chatting in the chat, like, you can tell me, did we do this? Number one, number two, or you can tell us in your comments because we're going to be Q and A here in just a second. So remember, that's where we began all this. And then here's a couple of questions for you just to get you thinking as we head into the conversation part of our hour together. And so the first one is, based on your experience as a giver, what should fund raising research explore next? And the second one is, what ideas do you have for getting research into the hands of people who need it? So there's a couple of questions that I hope you might share your thoughts on, either in the chat or in conversation here in a minute. And then I have to thank so many people, over the many years here at IUPUI since 1997, so I have many, many mentors, collaborators, friends, inspirations across our campus and the university. I have to thank the fundraisers who have volunteered their time, right? When people participate in research for free, are volunteering their time. So thousands of fundraisers volunteered their time to take the surveys that we talked about, and also the donors who I talked to in my study. So they're all giving their time for our research. Lili Dowt who funded that study that led to three of those projects, right? And the earlier edition of achieving Excellence and fund raising. And then everybody who's here who helped the trip Center team and for all of their wonderful support of this talk, the Jerry Odell from the library, And, my friend Greg Mobley from the library, who reminds you that there are many resources online on philanthropy and archives, so check that out. And so just thank you to all of you who have and those of you who took time to be here on this beautiful summer day. Thank you so much. Thank you, doctor Shaker, and this is the time we will invite you all to the rest of you to turn on your cameras. And if anybody would like to ask a question or share a comment, you could unmute or raise your hand, and please, we'd love to start a conversation in the time that we have left. There was one comment in the chat. It did seem that both Charles Bans and Santa Petronia ought you did, in fact, deliver on your promise. So thank you for doing that. Well, that's important. Are there comments, questions or responses to the questions that Jen posed to us? Well, Jen, while people are thinking I was struck by the slide that had that complicated information about the relationship. Oh, yeah. And I am my work is in the Department of Pediatrics in School of Medicine, and I focus my work on infinite early childhood, social emotional development and mental health. And it's all about relationship, and it strikes me that that is so important in most everything that we all do. And so I appreciate that, you know, that you have listed that out about the importance of or, I guess, the impact that relationship has in this work. So I'd love to hear more about that at some time. Yeah. Well, ahead I interrupted you in my, I'm thinking out loud about just where the importance of that and and how much that has to be a piece of it. And I guess that's how you move from being a pest to a pal, perhaps. Um To find where the commonalities are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, here in Higher Ed and that study was in Higher Ed. And it happened all the people in that study were alumni. That was just by chance. That's who the fundraisers picked to be interviewed. The fundraisers picked people who they thought exemplified, you know, positive fund raising relationships. And so those are the folks that they picked. They all happened to be alumni. And They all were at different points in that little diagram. So, so, you know, those relationships we don't often think about them very much, right? We go through life with how we interact with a variety of people, and the quality of the relationship just can make such a difference, right? We're not always thinking about it, but the quality of the relationship and the interaction can turn something mundane into something special, right? Or it can take something that's pleasant and positive and spoil it. So, you know, by understanding these relationships and the interactions that people have within them, we can really be more thoughtful, be more analytical, also be more strategic. And I have to say, of course, since Sandra is here. We're in Sandra's space. Sandra Petronio, in her research expertise is in relationships and in privacy and relationships. And so that's actually something that I thought about we asked about in this study was, you know, how do you navigate the information that you share with each other, within the relationships. And especially when the one party, the fundraiser is, you know, an agent of the organization, right? So how do you navigate those conversations in an ethical way that is, you know, ethical to your work and to the donors that you're talking to? So thanks. That's part of in my head. Thanks to doctor Petronio, and was part of the study. And there was a comment, Jen, it might be a great article to go from Pest to Pal. So I'd like credit for that since I did come up with. Yes, I think that I think that has potential. So Charles and Sandra, did either of you have a comment while you were united? Can you hear us? Yes. J. Okay. Yeah. Did you want to speak to the relationship issue, you know? I think it's important and lots of times people don't they just take it for granted about what's going to happen and I'm not worried because that person knows all this stuff and a lot of times, people don't get a lot of things. I know it's a thing that sticks out, but now, not with fate. You know, there's years and years and years ago, I had this insight about people in sales that one of the friends from my youth was in sales in Minneapolis selling advertising time. And I had this insight that said, if you're going to be a repeat seller, that your customers are people you're going to see all the time. And that's what she was doing. And I remember thinking, I would welcome Linda into my office anytime she was that kind of person. She was a person who was always not always up, wasn't that? It's just you always felt like it was a positive experience, and she was, I think, very successful at this. Sandra is the researcher on this stuff. I'm just the one who made that observation and observed that fundraisers have that in spades because the relationship is not as clearly defined. If somebody's coming in from a a TV station to sell me time. I know that's why they're there. I think fundraisers have a more complicated set of relationships, certainly in higher ed, because we illustrate that ourselves, as Jen does, as a donor to the place that you work. You have many different relationships demand. But I think your notion of using Sandra's theory on privacy and the issues involved in that give an insight to general relationship issues because privacy is a marker of a particular sensitivity, but so is money. And as you pointed out, I think that cultural thing with money and cultural behavioral with privacy. I think that's a way to get some insight about Past Pale I think there is a really good way to frame it. I think great Development officers become partners. Helping people do something they want to do? And sometimes didn't know they wanted to do it, but wanted to do. I also do would point out there's some great questions in the chat? Yes. Related to the topic that we're discussing. There's a suggestion about future inquiry to wonder about trust. How does that get built with donors, and what do you do when that gets broken? How do you repair that or rebuild it? And kind of what is behind that idea of a pesky fund raiser? And earlier, there's a question, Jen about, how do you best show donors the benefits of their gifts? Do you have some thoughts about that? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. There was so much in your comments, Sandra and Charles. Thank you so much, and I wanted to say that kind of leads into responding to some of those other things. I mean, when when you when you're a donor, and when you're a giver, and you make meaningful gifts to organizations. Like your connection, your association, to the organizations can be forever. It is forever. It is, you know, and we think about in Hier Ed, where we do a lot of endowments and and things are given in perpetuity. I mean, this is a relationship that could last a lifetime. And in fact, some of the donors and fundraisers I talked to, their relationships were 25, 30 years long. So these are very long relationships. And if you don't, I mean, they have to be relationships at that duration, right? They are not just transactional, where you just give and go, and there's no interaction and communication. And so during this period of time, I agree the idea of trust. I'm going to here's the question from Merl, how does trust get built with donors? What does it take to rebuild? What drives the perception of a Pesky fund raiser. And so I think a lot of there's a bit there is research about trust and philanthropy. There's not a lot about trust within these relationships, right? Not a lot of research out there. But some of the things I've learned in my studies really relate to the high level of integrity within the fund raiser, right? So high level of integrity, ethics, fairness, right? Genuine. Nobody in my study liked to feel pressured. And they didn't feel that they were pressured by the fundraiser. Doesn't mean the fundraiser didn't ask or check in on their gift or ask how it was going or present suggestions about the dollar amount. I mean, the fundraisers did all that. But the way they did all that, felt respectful, felt appropriate to the donors. So there's a fine line, and that's why sometimes fund raising is considered an art and a science, right? There may be the science of determining what's the right area to ask the donors to support or the right amount. But then there's the art in having the conversation about it, right? And so So trust has to be at the key, right? And the fundraiser is the representative of the institution. So the donors have to feel they can trust the fundraiser, or how can they feel they trust the organization or institution, right, if they can't? So I think that's key, and the more we can understand about that, the better, right? B trust is a big concept. A lot falls into that umbrella of what's trust. So, yes, Pe pets to Pals. I think it's the persistence that is in part, the pesky part. And, you know, just says that we I laughed earlier. We all laughed about all those letters that we get. Letters and more letters and more letters. And the reason organization I'll let you in in a secret. The reason organizations do that or send you lots of e mails is because it works. Happens. That's why it happens. It works. And so I think that experience we have, especially with kind of annual giving and our smaller level asks is, like, shades the feelings we have about all fund raising. Right, even as it gets higher, and we're able to give more if and we can do it over a longer time and you know, have these deeper commitments. I think that's when people start to have a change, right, of art. Yes. The Sara said Pesky is the transactional. Pal and Partner is the transformational. And so this transactional versus transformational, that's language that's been used in the field by practitioner experts like Jim Hodge and others that help us think about, you know, where are we trying to go? What's aspirational philanthropy? Where are we trying to go? Where do we start? Where are we trying to go? Right? I'm looking back because I know I skipped over some thoughts from Gene Temple asked about capital campaigns. And so everybody in HigherEd, like, is familiar with the concept of the campaign, right? It's hard to live in a university and not notice a fund raising campaign. Right, because they are going all the time. Well, all kinds of nonprofits are doing campaigns for various things, facilities, endowments, special programs, all the time. And we think we know what kind of approaches work for setting goals. We think we know, but we don't really know, because there's no research on that. And so that's something that Gene and I have been talking about a lot is how do we need some partners. Like, we need some consulting firms potentially to partner with us, so we can start to understand how our goals set, are they achieved, as we think they are, who actually makes the gifts. So we have just lots of questions, and this is a space where we can't do it alone. We do literally need pract partners in the field. And I guess that's another lesson about this translational research. You can't do it in a bubble. Yeah. Look, you can't do it without others and without input and partners and open mindedness and thinking about what they need out of the projects, you know? So what did they need and what do you need? And how can you come together on that? Well, Jen, I think this is a great example. I like the way you pulled that together at the end of the notion of translational research, that as was envisioned by doctor Petrono, that it touches every aspect of everything we do, particularly here on our campus. And you've certainly raised that there's lots of things to think about. There's a lot of work to do, and there's opportunity for us to learn more, and in fact, it helps make everything better. We're trying to make the world a better place. So thank you for taking the time to help share some information, raise some questions, get us to think about things, and hopefully people will go by your book, but also feel okay that they develop symbolist relationships and share some of their treasure with others. We do appreciate that. And I want to remind folks as we close out this session, we thank you for coming. Join us again next month, where we'll be able to have another conversation with our scholar of the month for next month, who happens to be Ambre Awash. And again, we're going to talk about integrating sustainability into your life. Check out our website, check out, follow up on social media, et cetera. We know that you have other things to do, and you need to get ready for your next appointments at the top of the hour. However, we will stay here. For a little bit, if you want to have that quick after the session conversation with Jen to thank her or to ask a particular question. And otherwise, we'll see you again next month. Thank you for joining us again and we'll see you soon.