Good afternoon and welcome to the IUPUI Center for Translating Research into Practice Conversation with our scholar of the Month. My name is Steve Vieweg, and I'm the Associate Director of the Center, and it's a pleasure to welcome you here as we today get to join one of our colleagues here at I UPI and her team of collaborators to learn more about her work. Today we'll be learning and hearing from doctor Ann Timon. And you'll be hearing more about her work in a little bit. But let me introduce you to our center and share with you that the founding director is doctor Sandra Petronio, who had the great idea to discover and honor and celebrate what we call translational work. There's so much of that happens here at our Indianapolis campus at IUPUI, where researchers connect with folks in the community to generate ideas or to use ideas to solve complex problems in our community. The center's director currently is Chancellor Emeritus Charles R Avance, who has been carrying the torch and encouraging community engaged and translational research as we try to solve problems in our community. So we're delighted to have you here today to join in this conversation. Couple of reminders about where we are. We're all on Zoom. You're familiar with Zoom, and so we would invite you to use the chat feature right now and to share with us your name and your organization so that our speakers and community partners have a sense of who's here. But we'll ask you to keep your mics muted until we get to the conversation piece. And at that point, we hope that you'll turn on your camera and when appropriate, turn on your mic so that we could hear from you and join in the conversation. If you're so interested, you may get continuing education credits for attending these conversations, you can just go to expand IU dot EDU and be able to sign up for that. We'd love to have you get credit for these things. Reminder, you will be getting afterwards, one of those pesky surveys that asks you about your experience here today. We hope that you'll take advantage of giving us some feedback and letting us know what you like, and what else you'd like to hear about as we schedule our monthly conversations coming up in the future. If you want to know more about what's happening here at the center, there's lots of ways to follow us, you can go to our website anytime, but, of course, we're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and we have a YouTube channel. For example, today's conversation will be recorded, and we'll put it on our YouTube channel, in case you think somebody else should take advantage of hearing this or maybe the many other sessions that we've had that we have recorded, you can always go back and check those out. We hope that you'll go check out our website and take advantage of seeing some important information. One of those pieces being you can look up our scholars. And so, for example, you could go to the featured scholar page and scroll on down to see Ala Timon work, and what you'll find when you get to that place is links to her journals, her published journal articles that you can access at no cost to you, where you don't have to go to the journal itself. You can just go right here and learn more about her work and click on the Article of Interest. You can go to the link right there for all of the scholar works publications that are included in the center for trip location. This is a great service offered by the library at IUPUI, which makes all those journal articles available to you in the public at no cost and with great ease. Next month, we're looking forward to having a conversation with Broxton Byrd, who's one of our faculty members here at I UPI, and he's going to be talking about paleo perspectives of climate flood relationships in the mid Continental US, using the past to inform the future. It's an intriguing title, isn't it? I think it'll be an interesting conversation for us to learn more about what's going on with the climate and how that might affect us. As we think about translational and community engaged work, we want to invite you to join us on I U Day coming up. April 19. It is an opportunity for folks in the community, our family, our friends, our community partners to learn more about all the great things happening at IU, we hope you'll pay attention to the center for translating research into practice. And if you're so interested in supporting ongoing work like this, that you might give up a little bit of your cash, and join us in summing, but at least come learn about it and invite your friends to be part of that. We're very excited today to have doctor Anna Timon with us. She's the professor of language Education in the School of Education, and she and her partners are going to talk to us today and create a conversation around reframing teacher learning as a mirrored process of becoming. So we're delighted to have you here. Allow me to unshare my screen, and then we'll let you get on here and introduce your folks, and let's get into the conversation. Welcome, Anna. Well, thank you, everyone. I see lots of familiar faces and you're kind to join us and have this chance for me to showcase the educators I've been working with and the impact we've had on one another. I'm going to share my screen, which will take a second of concentration. Now, my tech support is going to tell me if you see the screen or you see my notes. We're good. Oh, look, isn't that nice? I did it right the first time. I have with me today three teacher scholars from our own Indianapolis community presenting with me on this idea of reframing teacher learning as a mirrored process. So after you hear from me for maybe about 10 minutes or so, I've invited Daniel Jones, Robin Nichols, and Tracy Bunton Swinton to share their perspective on our collaborative work and the impact that it's had on them. So you have something to look forward to in in hearing their perspectives on the work we've done. So as said, my name's Anna Timont, and my focus is teacher education for English learners or multilingual learners. The US population is about 10%, has 10% population of English learners in it, and so every teacher is a de facto teacher of multilingual learners, whether they were prepared to do that or not. And what we've seen in our work of teacher education that when you get a new population of students, if you go from one English learner to ten in your class, for example, you can be rendered a novice in the teaching profession by a change of student demographics. And our effort has meant then that every act of teacher education for me as a teacher educator and for the teachers we work with is a reframing exercise. And I just have to admit that from the outset of my career as a PhD, and ever since I have been in a process of reframing. I wish I could say that I was clever from the outset, and I had all the right answers and all the right mindsets. But honestly, I admit, I begin with saying, I have not. I, with teachers in a collaborative space, have had the opportunity to reframe my habits of mind and my practices to better support multilingual learners in the classroom. I'm sort of thinking a lot when I say that about Paul Fray's work, and this pursuit of educational equity. From the science field, we have this notion of a wicked problem. And educational equity and the pursuit of it isn't a wicked problem in the sense that it's never really quite finished, and it's always evolving, and it has to be done collaboratively. So I like when I found this concept from him that we're all in the process of becoming. We don't need to worry that we're unfinished or incomplete, because our reality that we're working with, educational equity for students who are under served in public school settings is an ongoing activity. That pursuit of equity makes it an ongoing process of becoming. So he also shared this perspective that to really create generative collaborative work that addresses inequities in schooling, The answers aren't going to just be found in people, divorced from reality, nor yet in reality, divorced from people, much less in a no man's land. He underscores this idea, it can only be apprehended in the human reality or the human world relationship. And so I guess that's the first lesson I learned from the minute I was newly minted as a PhD is that I needed to become a co collaborator, a co investigator with other people to reframe our thinking about reality and to take action upon reality. So From the beginning, we didn't have this word translating research into practice when I started 26 years ago. But that is, indeed, what I ended up doing as I tried to translate theories of language, learning, and learners into everyday practices that made a difference in school settings that made a difference in improving educational equity. Our originator of the Trip center at IUPUI said this that Translating research into practice should end up with new systems, procedures, and routines predicated upon research that are geared toward developing functional practices. And as I said, in our efforts, it has been toward the pursuit of educational equity. So I'm just going to give you a few slides about how my thinking has changed before I invite my collaborators to share with you as well. And my work can be divided easily into two segments or two histories. And the first one, I spent the first eight years of my career at another university where after that first pivotal, I had a first PD experience with science teachers, with some material I had developed with my mentor, Elizabeth Bernhardt, at we were both at Ohio State at that time. And We had presented, and near the end of the presentation, a teacher raised her hand, and, you know, I was excited. What would this teacher say? And the first thing she said is, you know, this is all well and good that you've come up with this way of reaching English learners. But you need to remember that I have the whole range of learners in my classroom. I have high ability, low ability. I have multilingual learners, but I also have children who come from poverty. You can isolate in your work, but I can't. So, remember, I was newly minted, and I had been feeling so good about myself, you know, as a new PhD, and I was immediately put in my place, not intentionally, but it was sort of a little slap in the face that made me realize that I can't come up with university solutions to problems, without engaging with teachers, without going to them as the experts and co developing our solutions to challenges brought by the need to better educate multilingual learners. So Luckily, that came early. You'd hate to find out that you were stupid in year 26 of your career, so I found out immediately from the get go. And the next phase or the eight years, I started to redo all university coursework, and I began a process that we synthesized the best research in the field that we could and always tried to tie the research to applied knowledge, like how that would play out in the classroom. And I worked with over 100 public school teachers, and we went on to interview families, and we interviewed children and their siblings around them and videotaped them in classrooms and created case studies of families and students. So what I learned first as we started to develop these courses, we developed frameworks and instructional guides or facilitator guides. And on the bottom, you can't see it well, but it says this is a case study of bilingual programs and practices. These case studies became multimedia evidence of quality teaching. And we then we created those case studies of students who multilingual learners are and the needs and strengths that they have. So we developed six courses, and each of those courses were rich multimedia products. So six different courses, 16 hours of video segments. We interviewed just shy of 300 national and international experts in the creation of those multimedia products. But what I learned in this first federal grant that I had was that by golly, if I translated research into a story, the story that research had to tell. So when I interviewed those experts, I didn't say, give me the details of your quasi experimental design, which would put anybody to sleep. Instead, we said, tell us what your research findings mean. And that's what ended up on these multimedia products. And the case studies, what I found is that teachers view of learners and families moved from English only perspectives to much richer and more positive dispositions toward who students are. So I found I could, you know, working with teachers, we radically improved the quality of our products, and we put these products in the hands of district facilitators who would teach our courses for us. So the Professor Plus system was the professors at the university created coursework Collaboratively with these teams of educators over multiple years, but then we put it in their hands, and they taught these courses. It was a rich and exciting time in my career in the development of this. There was only one drawback. And the drawback was I had done, indeed, a quasi experimental design for that first study. And what I found is, yes, I changed their hearts and minds, but their practices look just the same. There was so few shifts in who the teachers were pedagogically. And that's where the bang for the buck is, really, right? Is if teaching practices changed. And so that has led into a theory of the next five federal grants that I've had. Investigating teacher quality. I've been able to improve upon and reframe my habits of mind and my practices as a teacher educator to better work with the reality teachers are in. And so we have improved, indeed, our ENL certifications, but we added job embedded pedagogical coaching. To the work we do with teachers and schools. And we have progressed to school change leadership and included family engagement. So with my first grant from when I was at the UC Berkeley, we started coaching and When you coach people in seven cycles of coaching, we could bring teachers from behaviorism to socio cultural practices more in line with Vigotsky's practices. This coaching meant that I had to change from being a behaviorist or I hope I was a cognitivist in my teaching, but I also had to open up the possibility with coaching that no teacher was going to implement my view of what ideal teaching is. We didn't need a one size fits all model. We needed a dynamic of fluid and literally a hybrid model of what happens in the interactional space between the university, us, collaborators, and our public school teachers. And so we've been on a long journey improving that model of how to advance radical pedagogical change, how to move from compliance monitoring and behaviorism to more rich diologic relational teaching in our effort. So first, you know, I worked with five teachers from five different schools, because, you know, that was a good research design. And what I found out in that grant is when you only have five teachers in a building making radical change, everybody thinks they have behavior problems. Why are their kids talking? Why are they so noisy? You know, They really need help. They were worried about these teachers engaged with us. So we quit isolating the teachers, and we started when I came here to IUPUI working at one of our Indianapolis public schools. We started using an expert coach, doctor Serena Tyra, who many of us know and value very much in our grant work here together. And we started doing whole school change. So we said, well, let's see if we could change a whole building. And we seemed to have more success with that. Now, the challenge with that success, which we tried across two federal grants is that we didn't need to worry about the expert coach bringing about teacher change, but, you know, Serena and I knew that together, the two of us could not change much, but one school at a time. And then, you know, that is to scale enough. So we started to work with district coaches, and we developed a coach shadowing model, because we learned quickly when district coaches started taking on that expert role, it didn't mean they had all the skills and knowledge they needed from the first day the district said, Hey, you're a coach. What preparation is there for those coaches. So we took on a series of professional development opportunities for coaches. And then we used our expert coach, in this case, doctor Tyra, to shadow those coaches across an entire year. So they'd pick a teacher, a coach a building coach would work with a teacher, and doctor Tyra would shadow them in one of the many teachers they coached to develop their expertise. And what we learned is that still district coaches needed more than one year of support, just like teachers needed more year of one year of support to make radical pedagogical change. If you don't have the goal of radical pedagogical change to make learning collaborative, language rich, contextualized, cognitively challenging, dialogic. If those are not your goals, then you don't need that much work. But we were shooting for the stars and still are in terms of making our classrooms places where students are using language and thinking and solving problems rather than being told or the stand and deliver or sage on the stage model. We moved on from there in the last grant, what we figured out is that you could get the district to say yes to federal funds, and you can get coaches and teachers to do anything with you. They are so willing to innovate and think about their practices. But if you don't have the building principal on board leading that change, that change isn't sustainable. The building leader can make or break an effort. And whenever we've had the principal on board, we have seen longitudinal impact at the sites we've worked on. But it takes you know, we're refining that model now. We're working in multiple districts with 12 buildings in our latest grant, the new grant we just got and hoping to see if we can finally get the story right, engaging district leaders, building leaders, and coaches and educators at every site. So you can see we've had different logos. We've been project target. We've built in and are working now under the education for Liberation banner, which is grounded in practice, reflection and action, and our newest grant is Logo there Project celebrate. So basically, this is where we've come, and then I'm going to turn it over to our educators to share their perspective is we learned that the change has to be reciprocal. I can't just look to teachers to change. I have to change with them. It has to be a dynamic interchange where we learn from each other. But it also has to be mirrored processes. If leaders, coaches, teachers, students, and university, teacher educators are all working from a different set of values, a different set of goals, and a different set of expected outcomes, we don't get change. We get unevenness. We get maybe sometimes even chaos, but we get bifurcated efforts. But we have worked very hard in our district partners to come to shared growth targets. How do we create processes where we have shared values, goals and outcomes working at every level? And we just know that that's a productive struggle. It's an authentic one. We don't expect every building to look the same or to implement in the same way. And we acknowledge that All of us have habits of minds and ways of behaving as people, but also as educators to reframe the pursuit of educational equity. So I, for one, know, for sure, I've expanded my identity. Theoretically, I've moved from cognitivism to critical socio cultural practices. I have learned that the greatest benefit I have is when we mitigate power in the education dynamics that we're co collaborators, and I think our teachers have experienced that with their students themselves. When they mitigate and step back from controlling everything, their students surprise them. And we want to become agentive in learning to act in the real world to improve education. So I have now invited in order Daniel Jones, Robin Nichols, and Tracy Swinton to share with us their experiences, and then I'll just come back with a slide or two that winds us up and opens up the conversation to all of us. Daniel. Hello, everyone. I'm Daniel Jones. I met Ann. I don't remember the exact year, but it was the year with after the five teachers. So maybe two than eight, maybe 2009, something in there. And it was at a really good time in my career. I was a teacher in the classroom, teaching third grade, experiencing that with Probably a lot of our teachers probably feel now burn out. I was dissatisfied with how my teaching was going. I felt like the pressure then it was I step to pass I step. We had just started I read. It was a lot of pressure. Teaching was just not fun. But I thought I was good. I thought I was a good teacher. I thought, you know, I was a collaborative teacher. I did not think of myself as a stand and deliver sage on the stage type of teacher as Anna used. And then I attended the professional development that she is speaking about, and I realized that I had a lot of work to do. And one of the things that Ann mentioned is the pedagogical radical change. And I am currently an assistant principal now and for Pike Township Pike Township Schools. And that has been my Mantra. If we don't change our peda pedagogical beliefs, then nothing that we do will change in the classroom. We can learn all that we want. We can go to every professional development meeting conference. We can be coached. We can have a coach. But if we don't have that inward change, then nothing will occur. And so I was fortunate enough. I was coached by doctor Tyra. For two or three years, and that was probably the pivotal point in my career because I had to be a willing participant to accept constructive feedback, not criticism. I wouldn't say use the word criticism, but it was feedback to have someone that is going to push you beyond what you think you can go In a classroom that you have very diverse learners, diverse demographics, being vulnerable, it really takes some vulnerability. And then after that, I became an instructional coach under the professional development of Anna and doctor Tyra. And so I got to see it on the flip side, what it's like coaching teachers that are going through that productive struggle. And then finally, I'm now in the position that I'm in now. I've been for the past four years, and I have been able to use the strategies that I've learned to help me as an assistant principal. I do not view myself as an authoritative authoritarian type of administrator. I strive to use what I've learned in the classroom with adults in leading a building. I will say it it was life changing experience. And if you were willing to accept the process, then it's worthwhile. And I hope I'm making sense in all of this. Because you just have to go through it and you have to be willing, but I can't not stress enough that the change has to be in our beliefs because it doesn't matter what you attend. I thought I was getting some tricks and some gimmicks and, you know, little things I could pass out. To my classroom, and then everything will be fixed. And that is not the case at all. So I like to thank doctor Tiamat for having me here to share my experience. I follow her everywhere and anywhere. Thank you, Daniel. Robin, we'll turn it over to you. Okay, I'm Robin Nichols, and I am a kindergarten teacher. And I in still in the trenches teaching kindergarten. And I first became acquainted with Anna Love when I went to or she actually we were one of the schools that she came to to teach the whole school. And I was a coached person by doctor Tyra. And I too, like Danielle, thought, Oh, I'm doing a great job. And then, as I discovered their passion and what they had to say about teaching and the different aspects of things, I'm thinking, Alright, maybe I do need to restructure some of the things that I'm doing. So You know, being in kindergarten with five and six year olds, you're pretty good at instructional conversation as you start from the ground and build up from the beginning with language skills and, you know, just being about life. So that was a pretty easy thing, but the one thing I kind of wanted to focus on today was there is one of the principles is critical stance and critical stance is when you take teaching to transform inequities. And I'm thinking, Okay, they're five. They're 6-years-old. What do they know about the world? What do they know about inequities? And so I kept thinking, right, what kind of project can I do? I was thinking and thinking. And then finally, one day, we were going to go to the Indianapolis Zoo and in researching that and doing things online, we discovered a program called 96 Elephants. And this program, was in Africa, and they were taking care and raising money to take care of elephants in Africa and raising money for things like binoculars that their people could use and all. And our kids immediately lapped onto it because it was 96, which was our school. And so, you know, that was meaningful to them. So we raised money, and they said, you know, what can we do? So that was the springboard. What can we do? And they finally discovered that they were going to make buttons and sell them at the carnival and raise money to help with these elephants. Because after all, there were 96 of them, and we were school 96. So that's what we did, and they designed the buttons, they colored the buttons. They sold them at the carnival, they did all of the work. And then we were fortunate enough that when we went to our field trip, we were able to present our check to the keepers of the elephants at the zoo. So it was all just like a full circle, meaningful thing. And, you know, I kept thinking to myself, I tried so hard. I tried so hard, and then the five year olds did it. I mean, it was totally them. And it was I was just then the facilitator. They were in charge. And that just was meaningful to me. And just recently, my EL teacher, my co teacher with me, we discovered a need for a new flag. The kids saw the flag, and ours was kind of ripped and it's torn and it's written. It's wrapped up in the tree, and they're like, you know, the misses Longs sat down with them and said right. Let's look at our flag inside. Let's look at our flag outside. And then they discovered things that were wrong with it and all. And then we ended up with what can we do? What can we do? Can we do anything? We're little? Can we do anything? And they said, Yeah, we can ask our principal to buy us a new one. So they sat down, wrote letters, wrote letters to the principal, and I'm here to say we are in the process of getting a new flag at our school all because of five and six year olds and just changing the shift from how we're teaching and how we're helping them develop their lives. And to end with, the one thing I just wanted to say is when you first look at some of this, I think it's very, very overwhelming. And if you just take a piece at a time, that's my advice, a piece at a time, and it works out. It becomes student driven and student, you know, they learn so much more. So that's what I would like to say about putting these practices into our classrooms that it can be done. Thank you, Robin. Tracy. Hello, everyone. I also work in Pike Township with Danielle. And incidentally, my first year with the pedagogical coaching, being coach to coach. I actually got to see Danielle as a classroom teacher in action. And I was, you know, and they told me her story. They're like, Well, this teacher has come so far. And so I actually got to see her in becoming, and she's still becoming. I M career started a little bit different. I came to Pike in 2011. And in 2011, they had already been working with doctor Tyra, doctor Timon. And I was I was hired as the instructional specialist in charge of the English Learner program. Mind you, I had no English learner, anything, no background, nothing. So but I love to learn. So I'll read and read and read and go to conferences and everything. Well, nothing really changed for me until I experienced the on and the Tyra. So Um I'm a district person. So I didn't start in the classroom and I was not coached as a classroom teacher, I immediately became coached as a coach. So I had a little bit different perspective. And when Danielle was talking about beliefs, you know, we can talk about changing teachers practice and helping teachers change practice, but it's the belief part that gets you more bang for your buck. And we have conversations all the time. You know, How do you coach to beliefs? How do you coach to beliefs? And the enduring principles of learning and back then it was six standards of effective pedagogy. We That's how. And one of the things that I've said is, you know, everything that we're doing, you know, it's a way of sheltering education. It's a way of sheltering for English learners, but it is not how many things are in Pop or whatever. It's not that. And so when We're talking about changing people, changing their pedagogy. And then I hear people say, Well, I have to do six standards when they come in. Well, you don't do six standards. You don't do the enduring principles. It's an identity. And so when we're training coaches and helping coaches become better coaches, we have to make sure they understand. It's not about changing the teacher to become a mini you. It's about helping them develop their own identity to empower them to empower students at the same time, so that the teacher does not have more voice than the students, and you don't have more voice than the teacher. So I can just say, I wish when I was an instructional coach. I worked in Fort Wyne Community Schools, and I believe Tampa is on this call too, and she worked there, too, and I was an instructional coach, and we had no training and coaching whatsoever, none at all. And like them, I thought I was like, a great coach. You know, I always got told, Oh, you just have you have so much to offer, you have so much to teach us, and, you know, you know, you get kind of pumped up and everything. But you don't get a lot of change after you leave the room, after you're not watching, because it was about practice not beliefs. So when I came to Pike, and and I was coached by doctor Tyra, I finally got it. And I'm still getting it. And every time and I'll go through this training summers, I might drop in a few days or a few hours, but I always get something out of the PD, the week long PD, always, always, always, always. There's always something else. And I also have this mosquito in my ear constantly. It's a great mosquito. It's Serena Tyra voice. When I'm talking with teachers, you know, instead of telling them what to do, and putting on that consultants at, What kind of questioning do you have? What can you ask them? And so it's constant. And so right now I'm working with a new coach and I'm shadow coaching her. And she said, I could have used you when I was working in Lawrence Township. I was like, What? I said, What do you mean? She says, nobody really has talked to me about asking questions and how to help with beliefs and all of that. I'm like, Well, nobody told me that until I got to Pike Township, and I worked with doctor Timont and doctor Tyra. So it is transformative, and I'm excited about the work we're going to continue with doctor Timon and her team. And I'm hopeful that as we continue through this process that teachers take it on as an identity and not a thing to do, not something extra. It's the thing to do. And it's not my identity. It's not doctor Tyra's identity. It's not doctor Tima's identity. It's your own identity, but also making sure you're building that identity and your students. T hank you all of you for your contribution and reflection on how this became a reciprocal process for you. I just want to highlight that we view this hybrid collaborative space as meeting these relational dialogic. It's dynamic, not one size fit all. Definitely reflective and democratic and reciprocally humanizing. And they're very productive third spaces. So I'll end our presentation there, and I'm just going to project these questions and invite those of you in the audience to respond. We were wondering how collaboration has challenged your thinking or practices or any of the byproducts of reframing that you've experienced in your work or your role in undertaking new habits of minds or practices. And this other question, what if we really did hold each layer of impact in the pursuit of educational equity or whatever your wicked problem is, what if everyone, all the co investigators, all the shareholders held shared values, goals, and expected outcomes, what would that mean? So I'm going to stop sharing and open the floor to all of you. Thank you all for sharing. And this is an opportunity. If you have a question or a comment, we would invite you to raise your hand or unmute so that you could ask your question or share your thoughts. Well, as people are thinking, I'm particularly struck by your your presentation of this model today and the parallels to the work that I do as an infant early childhood mental health specialist in thinking about you know the mental health of little kids. And though the work that we do in that clinical world, to think about this is, we call it reflective supervision and consultation to be reflective and to ask questions to understand from other perspectives as part of that. But what you talked about is building a self identity. So I'm curious about that. I want to meet with you all now and learn more about this to see what the parallels could be? And what I wonder from the three community partners is, and particularly, Daniel, you talked about I'm wondering how you bought into this. Like, how was this presented to you as a way that you would say, k, I need to do this cause it sounds like it was different. Something caught your attention and something caught all of your attention. So how do we present this or how was it shared with you to say, Y, I got to do that, to do this in a different way. It was a week long PD. First of all, I I am truly a lifelong learner. If something catches my eye where I feel like, there's a need or I want to get better at the end of the year, and someone says, Hey, there's this workshop, you might try it out. And then of course, you'll get paid for it. If you go, so I went and The way that it starts, it starts with your beliefs. So it's a direct hit to like your heart, how it was presented in that very first day within those very few hours. It it's interactive. It's not a lecture. You don't feel I did not leave feeling negative or bad about myself. I left excited about the year was in the summer, and I left excited about the future and what I felt like I could do better for kids. And so that's where I think Anna gets it across to teachers because it's a direct line into your beliefs. It's not a of everything you've done wrong, you know, type of professional development. And I was like, I can do this. I was scared to death. Scared to death. But I felt like, I can do this. I can do this. And I'm still learning, as Tracy said, we're always becoming. So And just a piggyback on that. I agree with you, you know, because when it was presented to us, the passion that it was presented with, and so many PDs you go to, they say, Here's what you're doing wrong in teaching. This is what you're doing. This is what you're doing. This is not what you're supposed to be doing. This is what you're supposed to be doing. But that's not how this was presented at all. It was like, you're doing a great job. You're in the trenches, you're doing a great job. How can we make it better? And so I think from that aspect, you know, you just looked internally and said, Yeah, I can make this better. I really can do this. And so a question for you all in the chat is, is there something available through the School of Education like as part of the training of this or like, how do people access Like how's this happen? We have federal grants where we fund teachers to come to summer Incentives. We're about to have a series of three starting next summer, where it's an introduction to the enduring principals, and then a year of differentiation as equity work for coaching. So Summer Institute plus a year of coaching, and the third year will be something we've created with Lasana Kazembi, Cleveland Hayes, doctor Jackson, and two other colleagues of ours on culturally sustaining curriculum. And then we'll follow that with a year of coaching. So this is a pre service and a graduate course that we offer at the university. And the pedagogical practices like you were guessing. They work in every place where collaboration takes place. So whether it's a church meeting or, you know, educational meeting with teachers or a teacher with their students. These enduring principles of learning are helpful in making things collaborative, language rich, you know, taking action, all of those things. We strike. It strikes me that this could be very applicable to the early care and education setting, right? So it starts early. We could apply these ideas to all education. Yeah, if we did more of this, we maybe wouldn't have our culture wars now. We'd to learn to listen. When you talked about early education, I'm doing some work with our early childhood center. I kind of go over there, and when I'm working with and some of them are not certified teachers who are teaching the children and their classified staff, but I'm actually using the enduring principles as my basis for everything that I'm teaching them and talking about student empowerment and how do you get the to take some ownership and change what they can within their sphere. So It's transformative, and everybody, every teacher who has really taken this on as identity will tell you their joy came back for teaching. Their joy came back. That's it. Yes the one. Yes. That is it right there. And I'm going to grab that as the place for us to take a pause. And to thank everybody for participating because we like to end these sessions a few minutes before the hour in respect that many of you have somewhere else to be at 1:00, and you may have to go. But we will hang on here and continue to talk about how do we get to that joy, if anybody wants to stay, and ask another question or, so, so we thank you for joining us, participating. We hope that you'll join us again for these monthly conversations with our scholars, that you'll check out the other great work that's going on here at IPY that is transformative, that's generating ideas and making a difference in our community as we were talking about today. Let's give a. Thank you to our esteemed scholar and colleagues from the community today and helping us think through some new ideas. And as I said, we're going to hang out here, if anybody wants to, continue some conversation. But for those of you that have to go, we understand, and we thank you for joining us, and we look forward to seeing you another time.