Welcome to the IUPUI Center for Translating Research Into Practice Conversation with our scholar of the Month. My name is Steve Vieweg. I'm the Associate Director of the Center. It's my pleasure to welcome you here to this monthly event where we have a chance to talk with one of our esteemed colleagues on the IPI campus and today we'll be hearing from doctor Carlyn Gentle Geniti. It's my pleasure to provide some introductory comments to get us started and share with you some information. So I happened to Professor ew, but we'll go ahead and continue on. All right. So welcome to our August Scholar of the Month Conversation Series event featuring Professor Carlyn Gentle Geniti So this is Chancellor Emeritus Charles Ar Banz and his wife, Professor Emeritus Sandra Petronio, and the trip center would not be possible without these two individuals. This was their vision. And that's why we're here today with this event. So thank you to both of them. So Zoom etiquette reminders real quick. So this is going to be a conversation. So we ask that if you're not speaking to your microphone so that way we don't have any background noises unnecessarily. And we also want to see your beautiful faces. So if you can, please, let us see your faces. If you have any questions while someone is talking, please type those into the chat or you can raise your hand. But we will be having plenty of time for conversation during this presentation. And as you all know, this presentation is being recorded live on our Facebook page. And it will be posted to our YouTube page after this. So if you want to revisit this conversation later or someone that you know wasn't able to join with us today, they will be able to see this. And we will be sharing a post event evaluation with you all. So if there's any suggestions that you have or comments, concerns, feel free to share that with us. We appreciate your feedback. And you can get continuing education credits for attending these events. And then we also ask that you follow us on all of our social media pages. We've got Facebook, we've got Twitter or X now. Thanks, Elan Musk. We also have, like I said, our YouTube page, and we also have Instagram. So feel free to follow us on all of our pages because we're constantly every day Monday through Friday, sharing updates about our trip scholars, because we are so proud of our trip scholars and all of their amazing accomplishments and the research that they're doing. So make sure to join us online if you have those pages. Then also, the work that we do here would not be possible without people like you. So if you feel inclined to, feel free to join us and make a donation, or like I said, you can follow us on our social media pages, share the word when you can. Any support that you have, we appreciate it, and we thank you. And then also, our scholars have the published constantly. So on our website, we have Scholart. This is a partnership with the IPI University library. So all of the publications that our scholars have, so whether it's journal articles, website, interviews, anything like that, you can find it on the website and also on the IPI Scholarts website. This is a brief video about that. And Jerry Odell from University Library is our partner, and we work closely with him. So he's another point of contact for this resource to. And like I said, this is free for anyone. And then next month, we hope to see you again as well. We have doctor Herardo Malcom, and he will be talking about the first wave of COVID 19 and his influence on social networks of Hispanics. And he was also our 2021 Bans Petronio trip awardee. So without further ado, let me introduce Professor Carolyn Gentle geniti. She is a professor in the IU School of Social Work. She also serves as the Assistant Vice President for Indiana University Academic Policy, and she's the director of the Indiana University Transfer Office with International, national and local leadership experiences and policy, government relations, curriculum and teaching. Professor Gentle gente has 20 plus years of experience in higher education administration and leadership experience. She is a leading K through 12 higher education administrator with proven success in building relationships, establishing positive pathways, curriculum, development, social bonding, assessment, and developing policy practices for successful student outcomes by emphasizing people, places, and experiences. She's also a celebrated scholar in Absenteeism prevention, and she is an award winning community engaged scholar, bridge builder and a social worker with professional expertise in human behavior theory. So thank you so much for being with us today, Professor General genity, and I'm going to turn it over to you. Thank you so much for having me The title of the presentation is Don't show up. Cancel student success. And I think that in itself is thought provoking, so I want to make sure that I'm grateful for those that have showed up to support me or to engage in this conversation. I see some of my social work colleagues, my IU colleagues, overall. Thank you all for joining. But time is a gift. And so I really want to make sure that I thank you for sharing that gift with me today. I thank Chancellor Bans and others who support this work, but particularly, Professor Veg and Nuri, thank you for organizing I want to start off then with a short video. And as we prepare for the video, it's important that we understand in this conversation that we have to create buckets for us to receive new information. And so this short video provides a context for the dialogue that we'll have. And unlike other lectures or presentations that I've been asked to give, this one was hard. It is scheduled as a water cooler conversation. So not a lot of citation and all these structures that we normally see in lectures. I've been asked just to engage in a true conversation around bonding and what we could do to ensure that our students show up and what is student success. But within that context, using a human behavior perspective, Nuri, if you're okay, can you go ahead and show that video? Wow. You, you go to pressure hair. Hanna once we did get up. Banana orange. Stars over your head. Okay. Banana or orange for lunch. Oh, my gosh. What? Hannah, what? Brian. Brian, Brian. Brian, get up. You have stars five stars. What am I a two star loser? Com star, Mom. Sorry. It was always. Look at this. Everyone in the world is rated. They can do this to people? If you give a bad attitude, then people give you a bad rating. Come on, turn out. Let's go. Is the cow still alive? Where is my steak? To star, Maggie. I'm watching you. M, please tell me this doesn't really happen. Get out. You're not allowed to eat here. So, you better play good the best mommy ever. She does have the ts Oh, my God. Me is I'm tired. Wait around. Thank you. And that's a trailer to the conversation that I want us to have. So if you are ready and able, you can open your mic. But maybe at least one or two of you. The question is, how many stars would you have? I know on a good day, maybe I may have three or four, but definitely not always a five. Would somebody want to share? So when you think about just that context, imagine the world actually showed your rating about how you perceive others, how you perceive yourself. Ruth Ann too cough her. Yeah, you're ready to share, Ruth Ann? How many stars would you have on a good day? Well, I would hope I'd have five, but, you know, realistically, No, it wouldn't always be five, three, four, sometimes two, you know, depends on the day and what's happening. Exactly, exactly. Thank you for sharing. Anybody else? At least one other. What would your stars be? Yeah, so I can say that I think my ratings, based on feedback I get from students in various contexts, would probably have a bimodal distribution. Lots of people who think, Y, I'm so helpful and wonderful, and some who are like, you're terrible. You did not fix anything. So yeah. Agreed. And I saw Jerry put in the chat. He would be a four at work and maybe a two at home. And I think that's what I wanted to create the context, that our interaction in terms of who we are. Oh, Crystal said, two, maybe as three. I can relate to the scene. And I think that's where all of us are, that on a given day, we may have a different context, but most of us, our self is defined in relation to others. And once it's in relation to others, you could have two objects that's sitting on your desk. Maybe those two things that you should have cleaned off your desk where I'm looking at Karen's bookshelf back there, maybe to give away some of those things that's on her shelf. Right? Those two things will stay there and not necessarily influence each other. But the moment you put two people together, whether they are close by, far apart, whether they do something or not do something, Instantly our brains begin to engage in some sort of dialogue about the other. Do they really like me? Why don't they want to have conversation? Why are they sitting so far? Why did they dress that way today? Instantly, we engage in some sense of influence when another is close by. That then brings us to the idea that Med talks about, right? Mee talks about that all of us walk through life with a functional identity. And that functional identity, even though we think that we are the masters of it, control of ourselves, we are really not. We're influenced by others around us. And that's one of the reasons when I was asked to have the conversation today. I struggled in coming up with a title, and then I said, Don't show up. Right? Because I was talking to some of my students and they complain about, you know, they show up on campus, and there's this mass requirement to show up in all these things, and they say, I show up, and then all they do is show a PowerPoint that I could watch at home. And I'm like, Okay. Maybe some of us are doing that. Maybe because it's not the five star day. But then what is it that we want our students to see, right? And then I talk to some faculty and they're like, Oh, it's a ghost we when you go on campus. There's nobody there. I should have just stayed home. There's nobody to talk to it, the water cooler. So faculty are also experiencing this. Administrators are experiencing it. Customers are experiencing it when they go to certain stores that normally had ten tellers that now probably only has two and the lines longer. And that's because of our interaction in relation to others. When we go out, we want people contact. We want others to guide. And it's through those interactions that we then find our functional identity, which brings me to the second question I want to ask. Maybe one or two of you could share. If you had to introduce yourself without your functional identity, What word would you give to yourself in your introduction? Not a teacher, not a mom, not a sister, not an aunt, not an administrator, not a driver, no roles. What would your identity be and what would your introduction be? A anybody want to jump into that quick one? A C rill on muting. Go right ahead. I would say that I'm someone who cares about people. Ooh. I like that. That's good. And Barb is saying passionate about lots of things. I think that's why I'm a social worker, too. I can relate to that one. Excellent point, April and Barb. I'm saying I'm curious and love. Fantastic. Now, the question is, how often do we introduce ourselves that way? It's only when by happenstance, you have a water cooler conversation with somebody somewhere other than where you're normal is supposed to be, because you're running late to that meeting or that event, that you go deeper than your name, your role, and your functional identity. The idea then about canceling student success is that when we look at our interactions with students and engage in the dialogue around return on investment in higher ed, it's really about what do students get? That's a value ad beyond content dissemination. And it's a tough one for us to grapple with because again, as individuals, we are grappling with that. Whether that be with society or faculty members grappling with that with administrators because they want more value, they want more passion, or even just millennials and genexs, they want more than just showing up at a job. They want meaning, they want passion, they want learning. And so then the question for ourselves is to look at, how do we bring that about? What makes that happen? And that then brings us to who we are as human beings. We are biological social beings. We require context to engage with each other. But more so, we require meaning, language, and thought to engage in any dialogue. And that dialogue brings us to my one slide that you should be seeing there. And the slide focuses us on something we learned in grade school. Our functional identity is defined by nouns. And if you look all the way back, it's people, places and things. And so when we're looking to create value, find utility and relevance, then we always must go back to people, places and things. Yes, COVID disrupted a lot of stuff. Much of what we had as norm changed, but our need for people escalated. Yes, we're having mental health challenges, and we're experiencing all of these, but much of it is because of that need for people. When we bump into something, we realize there is a need for adjustment. And that's essentially what human behavior is and that study in that process. It's the idea that when we are with the other, intentionally or unintentionally, we modify how we live, how we interact, how we speak, how we walk, all of it is interacted, is impacted by our engagement with people. But it happens in some entity, in some place. And it happens when we're doing things or engaging with things, right? So it's a matter of an interplay with people, places and things. So if you take nothing away today, take away that much of what we do in terms of bonding and relationship and purpose is grounded in nouns, something we learned a long time ago in grade school. But when we think about how to make a change in it, this is where social work particularly, and many other fields are now embarking on the idea of neuroscience. And neuroscience in essence has a whole bunch of components, molecular, cellular, systemic behavior, cognition, all of these pieces running together at once. But take this for an example. You have a thought. You woke up this morning and either you're humming something or there's this thought running through your head. And it permeates your entire day. As a result of that, that thought fueled some reaction. And that reaction then fuels some action. That action, then, if you continue for a period of time, is moved into some behavior that's impacting somebody else's life. And then you run into a cyclical structure. On a good day, we want those thoughts as April said to be nice and positive and filled with passion and good learning. But the opposite is also true that that thought could also be negative, which takes us down the spiral of suicidal reactions, somebody going out and doing a mass murder or doing something else. So the idea, then it takes us back to, what are we doing repetitive thoughts? Who's helping us to disrupt those repetitive thoughts if there's nobody else around? And that's why when we look at COVID in that broad structure, we ended up with a lot of people having repetitive thoughts. With difficulty interrupting them, because many of us were not around to interrupt those thoughts. It's the same reason we're having a dialogue in Higher Red, because students want to learn from YouTube. Many of us want to learn from YouTube. But I wouldn't want to have a dentist that only watched a bunch of YouTube videos working on me when I already have a fear about dentists. Right? The idea then is that we still need some level of adjustment. We still need some level of assessment. We need a level of, is this right? Am I on the right track? When compared to others, am I following societal norms and structures? If we bring the example of the dentist that learned most of the stuff from YouTube, who's validating? Is there an accrediting body? Is there an exam? Is there something else that's taking place? Therefore, inviting us as faculty members, staff members, individuals to say, we still need them on campus. We still need you on campus. We still need you involved in education so that we could create the opportunities to disrupt thoughts that may need validation, revalidation, or adjustment, or even for ourselves, that we could move those thoughts that impact emotion, that impact behavior to have a functional role identity that's going to take us somewhere. Most of us if you success, only when we have somebody else that tells us we are successful. A lot of us also say, No, I'll determine my own success. You will. And yet others do, because you're looking at norms, you're looking at a stat, for example, you get somebody comes and says, Oh, you got to score of 40. And you're like, Okay, I'm not quite sure what that means. And then somebody else says, while the score was out of 40, you got 40. You know, so and so got 20 something, and 30 and you're like, Whoa, and no only should celebrate because you have context. And so success in itself, though individually defined, we may recognize that it's only through those interactions that we determine whether or not it's good, relevant, necessary, or that it's moving us forward. And that's the idea of making sure that we understand the mirror that we use for ourselves. Who's influencing that mirror, whose thoughts are in our heads? Whose behaviors are we adopting? And does that take us to where we want to go? But when we think about people, places and things, then I ask you to step back. And it's Maya Angelo's statement about, you know, you may say things, you may do things, but it's how you make others feel. And so in your view of self and finding that utility and relevance for value, are you truly creating feelings that people want. So going back to our five star or 2.5 stars, on most days, do you believe you're evoking that feeling that's necessary for others to want to be around you or to view a version of themselves and then move on to who they want to be. It's the idea, also, and I'm going on a tangent here, but it's the idea around chat GPT and AI. And yes, it can probably do a bunch of things. But when it comes to feeling, That's something that's really uniquely ours. Yes, they can scrape the whole Internet and write the whole paper. But when they're in your class and you say, Okay, that paper has been written. Now, tell me how you thought about those concepts. How did those concepts come together? Why did you choose that topic? Then we get at critical thinking, how we think about thinking, and it moves us down a path that's very different. And so this is where I want to open up for dialogue. I said I wasn't going to give a lecture, and I feel like I'm doing all the talking, but It's the idea then that Mad Herbert Meade talks about the concept of intelligence, and that intelligence is really about the use of something. You won't know that you're really smart or intelligent until you're doing something. The same thing with students. You can teach them a whole bunch of stuff, but you still have to ask them to write that paper, do that essay, so they can demonstrate. They could use it for something. And in the same vein, he talks about learning, being habitual ways of acting. If we do it one time, we may not be perfect at it. But if we keep doing that same thing over and over, then that learning becomes oiled well enough that we have some sense of confidence in it. Then we take on a role of being good at it and then move into that functional identity, which then moves us store nouns, right? P places and things. We want to show off, we want to put it somewhere else, we want to badge, we want everybody to know. I think when you put all of those together, it's why I get the energy to do what I do and interact with people and focus on social bonding, social bonding in itself has the idea of commitment, attachment, and belief. Those are the four concepts. But it talks about we are nothing without those four. If we're not engaged in something, committed to something that gives us that passion, attached to pro social individuals that we can create change. When we talk about absenteeism, if I put a plug there, a lot of the students talk about not being engaged, not not being committed to anything that when they show up, there's no place for them. They don't feel apart, and there's no purpose in them being there. There's nothing that they're committed to. When we put these concepts together, I want to open up for dialogue with you and just ask, what is your perception then of behavior and importance of these four things in interaction? Engaging with each other, bringing utility to who we are as human beings. Research suggests and I know I said no citation, but research suggests or talks about particularly in absenteeism. No matter the background of the student, the experience, the socio emotional status, no matter any of those. Once the student bonds to positive people, positive places and positive things, their successful outcomes are off the chart. But yet, we are paying so much attention to all of these other things rather than just being who we are, engaging, interacting, communicating with each other. Oh. Anyway, open up for questions and dialogue, whatever you see fit. Make sure we can answer some of your questions. But again, if we don't show up, we don't get to feel your passion. We don't get to hear from you April. Karen, we don't get the juxtaposition of the good days and the bad days. I know most of my days with you have definitely been two thumbs up. But we don't get those interaction. I think this is where we get to open up and just dialogue about what that means and how that makes us feel. Thoughts. I want to see your faces. I'm trying to see who all is on, but let's chat. I see Jerry on. So we do hope that you'll take advantage of the suggestion and request to turn on your camera so that we could engage in conversation and reflect on some of the ideas that Carolyn is throwing out there for us to consider. So, I know that all of these comments are making me reflect on some of the evolution of the course that I over the years, and particularly since COVID. So one of the Small bright spots of COVID for me is that it finally prompted me to make short videos of chunks of every one of my lectures. I had bought a document camera like two years before that, saying, I'm going to make videos. It's going to be so great because then the students will have a video, and we can just talk in class. It's going to be great. And then I finally did it in the summer of 2020. And that idea of building relationships, both me to the student and the students with each other, I think, has been a little easier to do in that environment, because even before then, I was intentionally dividing my class up into defined four to five person groups to do small group discussion about. Problems, you know, practice problems. My class is very kind of mathematically oriented and having that practice is good for them. And it's I think being able to do a true flipped classroom experience means that I spend less time talking at them and more time sort of understanding who they are and where they are in terms of their learning. Wow. I see in several other sort of nodding in agreement. I think maybe they also bought that document to make some videos. I agree. One of the things, too, as others who may want to share, please let me know, is when you think about the self, think about the physical body itself. And the eye can only see out. You could see what others are doing and how they're acting and reacting. But we can't really see ourselves in action. It's only when we're Jaxtoposed to that other person or the other that we're able to see ourselves. I say this, Karen, because when COVID created its chaos, many of us were What's the word? Maybe taken aba by ourselves on video or see how we talk or how we look when we're in conversation or where others can see all of our emotion. So much so that many people turned off their camera on their side, so they could only continue to see out because we get used to that view. And I think that's probably one of the reasons too that many faculty members are scared of doing videos and offering that to students. B for the first time, it's giving us a glimpse of how students actually see us and how, how other people see us. But yeah, we can only see out thoughts or comments from others. Well, one thing. Thank you again, Professor gentle unity for your presentation. I come from a education background, and I went to school here a PI for education. And one of the activities that they had us do is when we were out student teaching was to videotape ourselves and then go back and look at that and see, you know, how we interacted with the students, like, as a female, was I interacting with the girl students more than the boy students or when a student acted up, like, how did I react to that? And that was really eye opening. And even now, sometimes I kind of wish, like I could be recorded. So that way I could see how other people see me and like, what type of lives I'm giving off and how I interact with other people and you know where I could improve. Then also, there's a quote, I'm going to say it's by my Angelo, but I'm not sure, but it says, people won't always remember what you said, but how you made them feel. Exactly. Exactly. And you're hitting on a point that all of us experience, and that's the idea of criticism. Right? So we are open to learning and growth. But boy, are we just hesitant to receive criticism, right? We're hard to put ourselves out there to get that feedback. But yet we know it's only through that feedback that some of us can grow. Is the idea of studying abnormal psychology, and many of you probably had to take that course for Janet. But it's when the self is in conflict with society. And the societal norms, then there's this process that happens. Sometimes it's abnormal, sometimes we go down a different rabbit hole. But the idea is that allowing ourselves to be engaged in criticism also feels like we're ostracized. You know, this big scarlet letter A on us that we're supposed to go somewhere else. But you're right, the more we start doing that early and exposing ourselves, the more we are accustomed to allowing the other not to change us, but to help us recognize what we're putting out there in the world and to ensure that our attitudes are reflective of the type of individuals we would want around us rather than those that we're pushing away. Excellent. I saw a couple of comments, but I see April's hand up. So April, go ahead and I'll quickly check the comments. So Carolyn and others, something that I'm thinking about. I know we're talking a lot about our own identity and how that is perceived by others. I'm in the interprofessional space and the decaborative care space. And something that we're really working on and changing our entire curriculum for interprofessional education across all of our nine campuses is can you hear me? Okay. Is how do we change kind of that perception of the students? Because they're coming in with their professional identities into a space that some are uncomfortable. Some they have been told that you're always the leader of the team. Others are kind of feeling inferior. And we're really grounding this with the theory of planned behavior. So we're trying to find a way to really change this paradigm, if you will. What are your thoughts about that? So as a faculty or a facilitator, we're facilitating these teams of students, and yes, they're listening to us and looking at us as models, but we're not always in their profession. And so What do you think about that thought? Because they have their identity. It's an excellent thought, and they do have their identity. But the identity, as you know, the identity is constantly changed by the role that they are now in. And so I would strongly suggest that the focus be on the role you would like them to play rather than the attitude or the behavior that you want them to take on. Because when you take on a role, take, for instance, each role, even if we take a role at a university or elsewhere, it comes with somewhat a set of a job description sort of expected general categories, but it still leaves that any other duties as assigned so that the individual can create who they are and their expertise can be spotlighted. So in interdisciplinary work, I often and I've done some work several years ago at IUPUI in interdisciplinary. And what we focused on is, what are the crosscutting skills and roles that we see ourselves playing? And then where does your unique identity show up? Because you don't want to get rid of that. There's a reason you're coming together. You're not melding to create a nice soup, right? You want to still have a really nice tos salad, where we're coming together. It tastes good, but you could still make out the lettuce and the tomato and everything else that you have added into it. So identifying cross sectional roles that are very, very clear that we're playing together, and then still have those identities that inform the work. But I'm glad you're grappling with that. It's not one that we will ever know the right answer to, but it's a conversation that we should continue to have with each other. Good work. All right. I see a question. How can we continue to show up when you are in an environment that is not welcoming to you? That's an excellent question, a difficult answer. I'm not an expert. I don't know the answer. But I can conjecture. So environments that are not welcoming to you is your body, your brain, your thoughts, your behaviors, you're experiencing, telling you something is not quite right. So yes, it's you accepting what that environment is presenting. Your responsibility then is to ask yourself, what is it that I want from this environment that's not quite here yet. And then using your own agency to explore avenues and ways for that to occur, or for you to gradually create an environment that can change that current environment that's there. And that's one of the reasons we go through and all of us do this. We talk about group norms and we go through that storming performing. It means that when we come together, just as April indicated, we bring our individual identity. I'll take it out as a separate example outside of education and bring it into, let's say, marriage. You spent your entire 18, 20, 30 years, 40 years, whenever you get married, individual, independent, creating your own account, creating your own identity, getting your own house, your own apartment, and then you decide to live together. And then in that chaos, you have to gradually assert what's important to you, the other person does the same and you negotiate. And it's in that negotiation that you create that new environment. And that's no different for every interaction we have with a friend, with a sibling, with a faculty member, with another student. I'm not saying it's not going to be difficult. It's going to be hard because you have to come out of your comfort zone to understand why that environment is and why those individuals who are there like it that way. And also for them to learn from you why that's a chafing experience for you. And then again, being vulnerable enough to still show up, because if you run into another environment where you're thinking it's going to be different. Any new environment with your same values brought to it will create another chafing. So now we have issues with people switching jobs and doing that sort of stuff because you're looking for more engagement. And sometimes if you're not quite clear what you want from the job as well as from the environment, you may find the same challenge with that chafing and never the answer that you seek. So Cindy, hopefully that gets close. I don't know if you want to come on camera or give me a thumbs up to say, you're close. No, that was wonderful. Thank you. And that's exactly. I love the idea of, you know, creating your own agency, asking the question what is missing there. And so it's just a follow up, how can we form our own agency? This is good. So that's something I will research further. How can I help students and members of our communities form their own agency, asking the question again, what is missing here, what is missing in the environment that we are in. And then the idea of creating an environment that is not currently there. I really like that as well because you're thinking outside of the box. What's again, who's not at the table kind of mentality. That was great. Thank you. Good. Welcome. Welcome. I'm happy to hear that. And the idea of creating your own agency is Michael Lerner talks a lot about surplus powerlessness, right? Because we don't have control of a certain aspect of an environment or a situation, we then give up all of it. And so we have to recognize that maybe you don't have power in x, but you may have power in y. So for instance, in a very structured environment, you may actually have the opportunity to create an informal gathering that builds up that culture, that creates that feeling that you're seeking, or you get the opportunity to demonstrate that type of environment that you want by signing up to take leadership around certain projects or activities. So it can happen over time. But for students coming on a campus, it's new to them. The people, the environment, everything is new. So they are creating their routine based on their everyday interaction. If they never bump into somebody that makes the place feel welcoming and encourages them to stay, gradually, you'll see them shift to something different as they look to find what they're looking for. Yeah. Suma or Sumana Thanks for the excellent presion. Could you elaborate a little more on functional identity as it plays out in the classroom for both faculty and students? Wow. This one is power laden Sana, let me know if I'm pronouncing that incorrectly, please. The idea of functional identity is It's positive and negative, right? So you could go into an environment and you answer a question in class. And the response that the faculty member gives you as a student puts you down or lets you feel inferior, or the classmates go. Why did you ask that question? Instantly, you realize that in that environment, you probably should not talk a lot. Maybe you don't speak well. You start creating views about yourself. That may not be true, but it's because an experience that you have. Maybe after two weeks, you try again and you get the same thing, and we know that any two dot point. If it's happened once, happens a second time, you may think that it's very likely that a third dot point then creates a trend, and you don't want to feel that way, so you begin to make adjustments. The same is true for the positive. We have a lot of high school students high ability. They've done well in their high school classes, they were the a students, and then they come to college, where there are a lot of other A students that made it into the classroom. And they find that they're no longer the smartest one there. And so they end up in a struggle as well. Same for faculty. Faculty may show up in their class, thinking they're ready to deliver, and they may find a student that has a lot of knowledge because they probably use YouTube, where they came from somewhere else or a person that changed career and coming back. So they grapple with some of that, or it's a staff meeting or a committee meeting where they may stand up and don't feel as welcome or not as engage or positively, every time they say something, people love the idea and say, Okay, well, why don't you lead that committee and then they end up with so much work or activities and then have to go back. So there's a lot that goes with functional identity, but it's recognizing that whenever you are being asked to take on a role, And in that role, you do it more than once. Remember that learning, that habitual way of acting. If you keep doing that, then gradually you take that on as a part of your personality or who you are and your identity. And that's where for us, in human behavior, it's important that we pay more attention to how we show up and why we show up. Where we show up, going back to that the nouns, the people, places and things, and who are we showing up as? You're welcome. Other questions or comments. Art Pierce, so let's hear. H. Save. How are you? I am well. Thank you. Bye. Thank B. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for doing this. I wanted to respond a little bit to April. And then I have a thought about power and privilege, which you probably assumed I would bring up. With far to interprofessional education which I adore and love. One of the things that to kind of get at that, how do we get everybody, sort of on the same page? One of the things that I think is really helpful and at the student Outreach Clinic, one of the things that I have tried to do over time is to get folks to understand where would we be without the other if you're a doc, where would you be without the social worker? Well, you know what, your clients wouldn't get what they need in the community. We would we be without nursing, you know, et cetera. So what is the value added versus what would happen if the other were not there? So just thinking through, how do we get our students to be much more reflective Because for me, the value of my broad liberal education allowed me to grapple with the big existential ideas of the world of life, of our inner world and our outer world. And so for me, reflection on those big ideas helps in all sorts of little ways as well. So thinking like, I literally have a new grant, and I just bought every single one of my grant students a journal. Because reflective education is so highly important to the work that we do. So they're reflecting from now on, that's just part of what they're going to do. And so learning to think critically, learning how to deal with. I know Carolyn, you've talked about the outer world, the context, but there's an inner world and an inner context as well. And grappling with your own self as a college student and as a graduate student is highly important because that gets at this idea of how do we think through our own power and privilege, and how do we use that for good or evil, and we can use it for good or evil, right? And so thinking through how I come across to the other based on my power and privilege, how do I use? How do I think through that perspective? How do I think through the perspective of others is an important consideration. I think that's where going back to interprofessional education, we can ground people in that sort of sense of reflection and how we come across to the other and how we use power and privilege in the workplace, in our education, in our own inner soul. Nicely April. April is ready to go. Go for it April. Well, I was going to type it. Barb, thank you. I know we've worked together and you being over at the Student Outreach Center. I love that idea. And obviously, we do have reflections incorporated into a lot of the work. The other component of this, as I was speaking of students, is then looking back at faculty, faculty who haven't experienced this collaborative efforts and how much they value collaboration, and the value in being interprofessional and really speaking the language. There's a disconnect many times with that. And so it's looking beyond ourselves. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks. I think I think the faculty, those of us who are really engaged in this work need to come together and be much more open and honest and sort of out there with it, right? Indeed. I think both of you are on to something really good. The piece that I think is still sort of crusty on the outer end have to do with utility and relevance. Reflection is effective when the learning shows up when the student is ready. And a lot of our students, particularly our students who live dynamic lives, there's still a lot of day to day maso hierarchy stuff that they're working through. Sometimes we are not all of us, but sometimes we find ourselves For lack of a better word, I'm going to use Naive because I'm in that group as well, that we think when faculty show up for some reason that they're ready at the tip top of that process to engage in reflection. And sometimes our faculty members themselves are laden with death, engaging in a new family, creating a new house, doing all so that they themselves are not even ready for reflection. But I agree, Barb, as well as April, that it should be at the center. But it should also come from utility and relevance for those who are showing up at that time for that work, and then the ability to move it on. I know Barb, we talked about the idea of power and privilege. And power and privilege is a societal term. It's a process that has been defined by others. And so sometimes individuals themselves find that they're grappling with how much power do I really have? I'm a faculty member, but there are so many rules and restrictions that I can't engage in, and the student is saying there's so much that when they show up together, they're not even sure of how much power they have together to create the change that they want to see. So I think it's some of those that you're right, we still have to grapple with, and if those repetitive thoughts are there, who knows what's going to come out of it if it's not disrupted? So reflection helps that disruption. Jerry, was that you that unmuted? Did somebody else I saw? And I know I need to jump in and remind us Carol Professor V. Well, I have to remind us of the time because we know that many of you have obligations at the top of the hour. So we do want to pause and thank Carolyn for engaging us in an amazing conversation, and you can see we're not done. This is a conversation that needs to continue. And we hope that this can be a space where we have those opportunities to have deep meaningful discussions about important topics like this. And, as we have been in the past, we'll thank all of you for coming now and officially. We'll hang on for those that want to have the after conversation for a little bit as we cross into the hour. But if you have to leave, we understand, we'll remind you to please fill out the evaluation that you're going to get in a follow up e mail. And of course, if you have any questions or ideas, you're always welcome to reach out to us as well as to Carolyn Gentle Gent. I'm sure she's willing to engage in more conversation. So thank you all, thank you. Let's give Carolyn a round of as you're getting nice comments in the chat as well. So we'll end it there, and then we'll allow for the after conversation for those that still have a question or comment or anything else that we need to talk about as we wrap up for the day. Nice applause. Thank you, everybody.